Hobie Cat Forums

It is currently Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:51 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:15 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:17 pm
Posts: 4
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Hobie 14 rules changed in 2007 to allow for the anchor point for the shrouds chainplates to be like in the H16s ie under the gunwhale. When a new H14 is ordered (Europe) they reinforce with extra fiberglass and resin the area where the deck and hull join near around the anchor points to handle the extra strain.
I am going to upgrade my system to this one but given that I have a 1978 H14 I figure I have three ways to achieve this:
1) If I use the original size H16 anchor pins I reinforce the gunwhale with two pieces of fiberglass tape three time longer than the pins on the underside, or
2) Manufacture pins three times longer, or
3) 1 + 2.
I know 3) is the stronger but would 1) be strong enough?
Cheers
José


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:19 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 8597
Location: Oceanside, California
I believe they would also ad an internal "patch" of glass to extend the load down onto the side wall like done on a 16.

We have not built 14s in the US for longer than this rule change, so unclear on what Europe actually does.

_________________
Matt Miller
Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:51 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:17 pm
Posts: 4
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Thanks Matt

The only way I can to that is by drilling a hole on the deck and then plug it but that would ruin the boat (to me). So without doing that would I be taking a chance a risk having the new anchor points ripping the deck as I saw it on a H16 photo?

Cheers
José


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 3:44 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 8597
Location: Oceanside, California
I'd say that is a possibility unless you spread the loads right.

Anybody done this?

_________________
Matt Miller
Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:39 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:58 am
Posts: 560
Location: Knoxville, TN
I'm just wondering what's the point in changing the anchor points for the shrouds? Sounds like a lot of work for questionable benefit and possibly to your detriment if you get it wrong. From a risk management perspective, I don't think this is a good idea.

_________________
Mark Van Doren
Division 9 Chairman
H16 #112205 (Richard Petty Signature Edition)
H14 #47787
H20 #647 (sold)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 1:28 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:17 pm
Posts: 4
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
The benefit is that it stops the side bars corroding where the pop rivets go into it (sideplate) and never needing replacement. If the change was simply to drill a hole to fit the anchor pin and fit longer shrouds there would be no hassle but it seems it's more complicated and unless the boat is reinforced in that reagion when it's built it seems the risk of ripping the hul top is too grate.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:02 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2009 7:28 pm
Posts: 113
Location: Washington, DC
I've been thinking about doing exactly the same thing on the two Hobie 14's we have at my local catamaran club. We recently had two side bars break due to the corrosion caused by the sideplate and rivets. If we're going to repair the two sidebars -- new ones would be too expensive and are not available locally here in West Africa -- we might as well prevent recurrence of the problem!

Jose and Matt: If you can find out anything more on the French reinforcements on the newer H14s, that would be extremely helpful!

_________________
-Roland
Sailing vintage Hobie Cats in West Africa.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 9:33 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 8597
Location: Oceanside, California
I'd suggest asking Hobie Europe direct. They have a website and contact info:

http://www.hobie-cat.com

info@hobie-cat.net

_________________
Matt Miller
Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:07 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2003 1:15 pm
Posts: 168
I added the Hobie 16 style chainplate to my 14. I kept the original shrouds to the sidebar and just added the chainplate--They work together, so there isn't as much stress on either point. I flew a Hooter, so I had much more pressure than a Turbo.

http://www.thebeachcats.com/pictures/?g2_itemId=17810


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:42 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2009 7:28 pm
Posts: 113
Location: Washington, DC
mmiller wrote:
I'd suggest asking Hobie Europe direct.


Thanks, Matt. Last time I sent them an e-mail, about a factory visit while I was in town and in French, no less, I never got a response. But maybe if I refer to you at Hobie USA, they'll be more likely to respond.

Dan Berger wrote:
I added the Hobie 16 style chainplate to my 14. I kept the original shrouds to the sidebar and just added the chainplate--They work together, so there isn't as much stress on either point.


Thanks, Dan. That's not a bad idea. Although I'd still prefer to do it completely the new way, as we'll have to replace the shrouds soon anyway.

_________________
-Roland
Sailing vintage Hobie Cats in West Africa.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:53 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2003 1:15 pm
Posts: 168
I should have called them anchor bars (and pins). I'm a stickler for correct terminology.

I thought about installing a port midway between the posts on the hulls to add a layer of glass to the inside of the hull, but figured I wasn't adding the full pressure to the deck as if I were to remove the frame rail attachment.

It was an easy fix. I used the Hobie 16 bow tangs to attach to the adjuster, then I installed the anchor bar and pin. I have a hand swager, so I swaged it on the boat to get the measurements perfect.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:10 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:17 pm
Posts: 4
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Dan's photo is interesting. I would guess measurements would need to be exact for the loads to be shared between sidebars and gunwhales. But the sidebar will still corrupt.

I have been in touch with Hobie Europe but as someone said they don't respond. However they passed my email to Hobie Australia and I have been in touch with their representative.

When the new H14s are built the construction around the new shroud anchor points is reinforced with extra fibreglass, ie the deck and side plus where these two join (if you look at a H16 you'll notice that the gunwhale is thicker and longer than on all pre-2007 H14s).

Despite my attempts to get the answer I wanted, I was told that if I went ahead with the conversion , even as per my 3rd option, I would rip the gunwhale and top eventually.

So, although disappointed (had already cut new wires and bought the new bits), I decided to stick to the way the boat was designed - sidebar anchor points. Yes, it will corrode after a few years but to prevent demasting the boat here is what you do - insert an alluminium pipe about 300 mm long inside the side bar and pop rivet the side plate, bar and pipe. It works well. The pipe's circumference needs to fit snug inside the sidebar curve and be about 5 mm thick. This is what I have in both side bars of my H14.

I was sailing on gusts of 20-25 knots a few weeks ago when my sidebar cracked where the plate is pop rivetted but the pipe held everything together. This incident prompted me to investigate the new H14s but the rest of the story you all know.

Cheers
José


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:13 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2009 7:28 pm
Posts: 113
Location: Washington, DC
José wrote:
So, although disappointed (had already cut new wires and bought the new bits), I decided to stick to the way the boat was designed - sidebar anchor points. Yes, it will corrode after a few years but to prevent demasting the boat here is what you do - insert an alluminium pipe about 300 mm long inside the side bar and pop rivet the side plate, bar and pipe. It works well. The pipe's circumference needs to fit snug inside the sidebar curve and be about 5 mm thick. This is what I have in both side bars of my H14.


Thanks for the tip about the aluminum pipe, José.

The welder we use at my sailing club here in Africa, who does weld aluminum, used a steel pipe as internal reinforcement when he fixed a boom for us recently. That obviously defeats the purpose of the repair. So I'll probably need to import some properly sized aluminum pipe before allowing him to work on the H14 sidebars.

_________________
-Roland
Sailing vintage Hobie Cats in West Africa.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 5:35 pm 
Offline
Hobie Approved Guru

Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 7:11 pm
Posts: 4498
Location: Detroit, MI
Africat wrote:
José wrote:
So, although disappointed (had already cut new wires and bought the new bits), I decided to stick to the way the boat was designed - sidebar anchor points. Yes, it will corrode after a few years but to prevent demasting the boat here is what you do - insert an alluminium pipe about 300 mm long inside the side bar and pop rivet the side plate, bar and pipe. It works well. The pipe's circumference needs to fit snug inside the sidebar curve and be about 5 mm thick. This is what I have in both side bars of my H14.


Thanks for the tip about the aluminum pipe, José.

The welder we use at my sailing club here in Africa, who does weld aluminum, used a steel pipe as internal reinforcement when he fixed a boom for us recently. That obviously defeats the purpose of the repair. So I'll probably need to import some properly sized aluminum pipe before allowing him to work on the H14 sidebars.

Try using a piece of a broken spar or boom off a Sunfish - it's about the right size.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:51 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2009 7:28 pm
Posts: 113
Location: Washington, DC
MBounds wrote:
Try using a piece of a broken spar or boom off a Sunfish - it's about the right size.


Thanks, Matt. I don't think I've seen any Sunfish around here.

But you gave me an idea. Maybe we can try with one of the old windsurfing masts that are catching dust around our storage area. I'm hoping that fiberglass on aluminum would do better than steel on aluminum.

_________________
-Roland
Sailing vintage Hobie Cats in West Africa.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group