Hobie Cat Forums

It is currently Fri Dec 19, 2014 4:58 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Remove rudder mounts
PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2014 11:17 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2014 11:05 pm
Posts: 5
I am rebuilding the rudders on my turbo 14. I need to replace the cams, plunger, spring and plug but cannot get the pivot pins out of the rudder assembly. I removed the rudder blades but cannot get the assembly fixed to the transom, and the assembly that the blades mount to, apart. I have tried hammering the pins out - and yes, I did remove the split pin - but they don't move. I have sprayed with WD40, but not game to use too much hammering in case I break the fiberglass transom.

Can I remove the screws that attach the rudder assembly to the transom. I think they need an allan key but look easy to remove. Not sure if they have a loose nut inside or some sort of fixed plate. If I can get the whole assembly off, I can use some heat or more force to get the pins out. Will I be able to get the screws back in without surgery to the hull?

Any suggestions?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Remove rudder mounts
PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2014 9:54 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 9306
Location: Oceanside, California
You could cut the pins in several places to remove the castings and then work on the stuck pieces.

You can cause more problems by breaking off a screw trying to remove the gudgeons.

_________________
Matt Miller
Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Remove rudder mounts
PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2014 10:12 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 10:25 am
Posts: 2618
Location: Jersey Shore
I agree, you would be better off cutting the pins where they meet the casting and then working on getting the pins out of the castings. If you start pulling apart the gudgeons, you could break off a screw or the aluminum reinforcement plate in the hull could be dislodged. If the rudder pins are aluminum, you should be able to cut through them no problem. If they're stainless, you better have a nice sharp hacksaw blade.

sm


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Remove rudder mounts
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 12:02 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2014 11:05 pm
Posts: 5
Thanks for the feedback. The boat is at a holiday house so not able to do anything for a week or two. I think I will use heat on the seized fitting to start. I have a butane gas flame I can try. Will shield the fibreglass with some stainless. There is no movement in the rudder pins so they do not need replacing. Is it possible, if I cannot remove them, to replace the plunger assembly on the boat? Given the state of neglect of the boat when I bought it, I assume the plugs will need to be drilled out and threads tapped. Saw a video of this on UTube but it was all done in a vice.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Remove rudder mounts
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 12:31 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 10:33 am
Posts: 434
Location: Clinton, Mississippi
Unless you're dead set on making all this perfect, I'd recommend more of a phased approach. First make sure you understand how the system works and the purpose of each part (see FAQs on this site). Then start by removing the cams. Next you should be able to pull out the plungers and springs from the hole in the top of the casting (without removing the delrin screw {plug} that is below them). (A little dishwashing soap will help lubricate and break up crud that may be holding the plunger in.) Then clean everything up really well, including the inside of the casting. Unless there is damage to the springs and plungers, they probably don't even need replacement. If anything, newer springs will be stiffer (more likely to lock rudders too tight). Further, if the cam tension was right before all the neglect, you may not even need to replace the delrin screw.

Reassemble with new cams (plungers and springs, if needed) and apply a dab of white lithium grease to the plunger and cam surface where they contact as the rudder goes up and down. You might be surprised at how much a good cleaning, new cams, and a little lubricant will help.

This is not the optimum fix...your castings will still be stuck to the boat and you won't be able to adjust cam tension. I'm just offering it case you might want a possible easier solution for the short term or for a vacation house boat that won't see a lot of use. Even if it doesn't work, you haven't spent much time, effort, or cash that you wouldn't have spent otherwise.

_________________
Jerome Vaughan
Hobie 16


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Remove rudder mounts
PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 9:27 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2014 11:05 pm
Posts: 5
Sounds sensible. When I try it out I will post a reply on the forum and let you know how it went. Thanks for your help.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Remove rudder mounts
PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 12:46 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2014 11:05 pm
Posts: 5
Finally got to the rudders and followed the good advice from rattle 'n hum. Removed the broken cams and could easily get at the springs. One was a bit bent and the plunger had twisted out of the hole destroying the cam. I had replacement springs but they were about an inch too long. They were about 2 1/2 inches. Used the old springs. Tried the plugs but they would not move so just reassembled everything. All seems good.

I am repairing the blades at the moment so did not fit them. They are at my home and the cat is at a holiday house. Blades are chipped and the bottoms ground down. Rebuilding with epoxy putty and will put fibreglass over the leading edge and bottom. Once that is done, will be set for a sailing summer (at least here in Australia)

Thanks to all who offered advice particularly rattle 'n hum. Your advice saved me a lot of grief.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Remove rudder mounts
PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:32 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 10:33 am
Posts: 434
Location: Clinton, Mississippi
Excellent! I'd encourage you to keep trying to loosen the rudder pins, though. I've found that PB Blaster penetrates better than WD40....hit 'em once each day that you're around the boat. Maybe with that and some use they'll eventually come around.

Enjoy your summer!!!!

_________________
Jerome Vaughan
Hobie 16


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Remove rudder mounts
PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 3:26 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2014 11:05 pm
Posts: 5
Totally agree. Will keep at them. Not heard of PB Blaster in Australia, but used a product called Penetrine yesterday and will keep trying to shift them. I had a thought last night about the spring length. Could not shift the plugs that adjust the springs, so wonder if a previous owner just screwed them in all the way. When the springs were next replaced, they found they could not get a set of new springs to fit. Maybe cut the springs down to get them into the hole. When I get the blades finished and on the boat, will be able to tell if the release pressure is about right. Will also try and loosen them over time.

One thing with boats is that you can guarantee, given enough time, everything will eventually break. Might as well start un-seizing things as soon as possible.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Remove rudder mounts
PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 11:27 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 10:33 am
Posts: 434
Location: Clinton, Mississippi
I think you have the right approach, and it's good you're working toward the optimum solution. I have heard of people cutting off some of the spring length to reduce cam tension....never tried it myself......sounds like it would be hard to get just right. Removing a stuck delrin screw is a pain, but doable....lots of threads on here about that. I wouldn't even try that unless/until you are successful in removing the castings from the boat....it will be much easier. When/if you get to the point of replacing the delrin screws, I'd coat the new ones with Lanocote, Tef-gel, or at least antiseize compound before installing. If things will function well enough to get you through the summer, I'd save the difficult stuff for next winter.

_________________
Jerome Vaughan
Hobie 16


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group