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 Post subject: Rudder Control
PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2004 11:12 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 11:07 am
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Location: Toronto
I have just purchased a '83 Hobie Turbo. Upon sailing it for my first time I found it very difficult to steer under heavy wind. Is there any sort of attachment I can get to make steering the boat easier? :P


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 Post subject: rudders
PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2004 11:33 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2003 9:57 am
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Location: Clear Lake Iowa
Make sure the rudders are locked down and pointing straight up and down, not angled back at all.


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 Post subject: Rudder Control
PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2004 12:08 pm 
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Location: Toronto
They are both pointed down all the way. It is the constant pulling on the stick that really starts to hurt my poor little fingers!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2004 1:37 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2004 1:26 pm
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Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Is there any toe-in on the 14's like the other cats I've seen? The rudders should be parallel to the centerline of the boat when in the neutral position. If they are splayed outward, the rudders might be on the wrong hulls. Just a thought from a newbie.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2004 5:26 pm 
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The rudders can pull hard-especially on a turbo with an additional 40% of sail area than my standard-my boat would prbly fly out of the water with a new main and jib-quite literally!! Anyway, the rudders should be securly locked down and their should be about 1/8-1/4" of toe in-measured from rudder to rudder at the front where their is a hump and directly back on the trailing edges. The distance b/n the front of the two rudders should be about 1/8-1/4" smaller than at the trailing edges! If their is any toe out, it can make for some hard steering (I flipped the rudders on mine so their was toe-out when I put them back on this season-had more pull than normal but still controlable). Also, invest in a pair of sailing gloves-they make a world of difference (I have to have them-otherwise my fingers would be chopped of from frostbite when sailing in 35 degree water!), making it easier to grip the ropes, tiller and when pulling up the main.

Sam


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 6:48 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 11:07 am
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Location: Toronto
Thanks for all the tips guys. I have seen cork balls on the end of the stick to give you something bigger to hold. Has anyone attached anything like that? If so where can I get one and how? Also how do I adjust the toe in and toe out on the rudders?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 7:15 am 
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Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Another tip with the hotstick is to keep it as close to parallel with the crossbar as possible. You probably should be sitting as far aft as possible anyway. Keep the stick behind you, instead of in front of you. A the angle increases between the hotstick and the crossbar, less of the force you're exerting is translated to the helm (they told me that I would use trigonometry in the real world someday). Brace your hand on the hull for a reference point, and to use the friction to assist the grip.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 7:32 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 9:32 pm
Posts: 198
Location: West Texas
David Bain wrote:
Thanks for all the tips guys. I have seen cork balls on the end of the stick to give you something bigger to hold. Has anyone attached anything like that? If so where can I get one and how? Also how do I adjust the toe in and toe out on the rudders?

I think Murray's has them, else the Hobie catalog also has them.
Depending on how old your boat is, the "tiller connector bar" or whatever it's called (that connects the two tillers) may have one or two ends that screw in or out just a bit to adjust the rudder toe. If you're like me, though, and have a really old (1972) boat then there are no adjustments possible. Just make sure that your rudders are on the correct side. If they're on backwards then you'll have a ridiculous amount of toe in that creates a lot of drag. Been there, done that.

Warm regards,

Jim[/url]


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 12:04 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2004 6:39 am
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Location: Finger Lakes, NY
The pressure on the rudder, called "weather helm", is due to some crazy physics involving the center of pressure (a moving point up and down the sail that changes as your trim and the wind changes), your course to the wind (upwind, downwind etc), the drag on the rudders, and, to some degree, your speed. You have noticed that steering becomes more difficult as you go faster in higher winds. :?

There is a lot of good information regarding toe-in and alignment here but xanderwess came the closest to a correct solution by telling you to see if your rudders are "straight up and down". Xander was addressing the main variable that you can change: drag on the rudders.

Viewing the boat from the side: Drag (weather helm) is induced as the rudder tips move away from the hull and reduced as you "tuck" the rudder tips "under" the hull (towards the bow)l. This vertical alignment is called "rudder rake". Too much rudder rake results in the steering being too easy (believe it or not) and you lose the ability to keep the boat in a firm, straight, line. Too little rake results in too much weather-helm and you have to be Popeye to hold the thing on a course in a good breeze. :x

How do you adjust it?

Expensive: Buy a pair of adjustable upper-rudder castings with rudder rake adjustment - cams. They apply pressure on the rudder cam and shove the top of the rudder stern-wise, which changes the vertical angle forcing the tips forward, tucking them under the hull.

Cheap: Remove your rudders. Note that there are two holes, one for the pivot and the other where the upper rudder casting connects. I think that the upper casting hole is drilled in the wrong spot. Here is how you change it: Fill the existing hole with Epoxy or Bondo. It has to be a solid fill. When it is dry, drill a new hole a LITTLE higher and a LITTLE further back, about 10:00, right next to the original hole- overlapping the holes is OK, that is why you need a solid fill. A little adjustment goes a long way. An 1/8 inch can change the angle forward by 1/2 inch +/-

Reinstall and sail. Enjoy! 8)

PS- there is a downside to rake adjustment- it gets harder to lock your rudders down so make any adjustments small ones


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 12:17 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 11:07 am
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Location: Toronto
thank you widerisbetter! This is all very new and confusing to me. I am wondering if the forces I felt the other day were normal or not. I will give the boat a good look this weekend and let you know what I discover. Who knew you had to be so well informed to sail a 14' Hobie? I appreciate all the responses. In any event I really am enjoying my new boat and I am sure I will have a slew of questions after I get some weekend sailing in!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 12:18 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 11:07 am
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Location: Toronto
Can I post pics on this site?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 12:49 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 9:32 pm
Posts: 198
Location: West Texas
There's no upload site but if you mail me pics I can put 'em up for a couple days/weeks. :)


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 Post subject: your welcome
PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2004 12:39 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2004 6:39 am
Posts: 471
Location: Finger Lakes, NY
Having fun is #1

Too much weather helm is not normal. When the boats were shipped it was up to the dealer to drill the rudder mounting holes. I assembled a few. Unless the dealer took time (not always the case) the holes were probably drilled according to the template that was provided and, unless the template was aligned PERFECTLY the holes will be off. My first boat, a 16 was a MESS. I fixed it on the cheap with help from an A-Fleeter that I knew.

BUT WAIT UNTIL WINTER!!! Don't waste limited good sailing days on crap like this. Besides, it's good excersize :)

Anybody want a 1 way ticket around the forestay :twisted: ?

Peace out


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2004 4:04 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2003 2:48 pm
Posts: 172
Location: Maryland/Outer Banks, N.C.
An '83 turbo might already have adjustable castings- my '82 doesn't, but some I've seen do- if not, you'd need upper castings and you'd either need to drill the lowers for the adjusting screws or get ahold of some newer ones. I think what the assembly manual calls for as a starting point is for the forward edge to be about 1 1/8" ahead of the rudder pin center line. Hope this is helpful- Dave


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2004 7:15 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 11:07 am
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Location: Toronto
I was in a sailing shop yesterday and they are telling me that the rudders should have zero toe in??? So what is it gents? Should I have a 1/8 to 1/4 toe in or none???? I am confsed again???


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