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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 9:05 am 
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I'm new to cat sailing, but have sailed and raced trimarans. In reading other posts/threads on this topic I am informed, but want to confirm some stuff. First, though, this is how you tune a trimaran rig so you folks can tell me if these techniques still apply.

Trimaran Fore/aft mast rake is adjusted so that the sailplan will gently round the boat into the wind with the tiller neutral when beating to weather. Should take about five seconds after releasing the tiller for the jib teltales to go from both flowing to the inner one straight up. Once mast rake is adjusted, then side shrouds are tightened as much as possible to make the boat as stiff as possible--even with a rotating mast.

The Getaway has no boards, just skegs on the aft end of the floats that do not extend below the floats. Also have two rudders one of which may or may not be working depending on heel angle. In reading posts on this subject, it appears that the rig is tuned to have maximum mast rake consistent with ability to put maximum mainsheet without two-blocking the mainsheet. Side shrouds are adjusted to allow this but no effort seems to be made to make the boat tight-presumably to allow free mast rotation. Beat to weather with boat trimmed flat fore-aft in light/medium wind, bow up in heavy weather. It hasn't been mentioned, but is it better to trim athwartships so the windward float is just out of the water to reduce wetted surface? No one said, but it seems reasonable since that makes the sailplan most efficient.

Did I get that right? Do I ignore weather or lee helm in rig tuning to be most efficient to get to weather?

Trimarans don't point well, even those with centerboards; I expect the Getaway will point even less well since there are no boards. What do you typically tack through? My trimaran used to do about 100 degrees. Will the Getaway get 110 or ??

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 3:48 pm 
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Seems correct.

Wires are tensioned to get the rig "tight" when standing at the beach, but since the mast bends when loaded... the lee shroud always goes limp.

Rudders and keeps work as lateral resistance. Mostly the rudders. I think you can sail at 55 ish or closer to weather.

Yes... weather hull just-out is fastest typically.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 9:34 pm 
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The first few time we sailed the Getaway the windward performance was poor. I also sail Hobie 16s and did not expect the Getaway to be as good, but the boat was really bad. I had started with the the recommended settings in the assembly manual and just could not get the boat to go upwind.

The manual suggests the forestay pin in the first or second hole and the shrouds set to taught.

This does not work for me. The H16 sails upwind on its rudders lots of rake to get the boom right down to the rear cross beam and the jib clew right at the front beam. This creates massive weather helm and loads the rudders up like the skegs on a windsurfer. I have tried to duplicate that rig tune on the Getaway.

The first race against a friend sailing my 16 was no contest. The 16 had both better speed and higher angle. We were minutes behind at the first mark and had no hope of correcting out on the 16 ... they were just gone.

I set the forestay in the first hole (longer / more rake) and moved the pins for the shrouds up (looser) to allow the mast to flop to leeward.

Second race we we able to have the 16 close at the weather mark and we were within seconds after a long broad reach to the halfway mark. (My Getaway has a spinnaker) ... we were pacing the 16 on the close reach back in a building breeze when the tack shackle pin fell out and we dropped the mast. No one hurt and no real damage.

While I had the jib off the boat anyway I took it to Tony Morelli. I needed the forestay reassembled and the luff tension set. I also had him add a telltale window about 1/3 up the luff from the tack. The Getaway jib has telltales about 2/3's up and no window. These are too high to see while driving the boat upwind. Since there are no adjustments for the jib leads all I needed was something low I could see. I also mentioned that I had a bit of leech flutter and asked for a leech cord. Tony found a hard spot on the sail where the production loft had missed a match-up mark on a seam. He opened the seam and restitched the sail. In on Monday and back to me noon Friday ...

When we restepped the mast I decided to ease off the shrouds one more hole to let the mast sit a bit more to leeward.

Race #3
We found the line bias right and hit the pin end of the line at speed on Port. The 16 got caught in the confused ait of some other boats wait for their start and we had a 2 minute lead. We sarted in about 6-8 knots of breeze and got the boat wound up and moving. We actually beat the 16 on the beat. I missed a one shift and I gave back some of what we gained ... but for the first time the boat did not suck going upwind.

We were pushing pretty hard and trying to keep the windward hull out of the water as much as possible. The wind came forward on the second leg and we dowsed the spinnaker to close reach into the mark ... gust ... up up up and over. Rats. We were leading by quite a bit ... First time capsize with the Getaway for me and the first every catamaran capsize for my wife/crew. We talked through what we were going to do and although it seemed like forever we were sailing again in about 7 minutes.

We came second to the 16 ... but not by much considering the capsize. I'm pretty sure in 12+ knots of breeze we will be able to fight for trophies with the 16s on handicap. Might even be able to beat some on the water.

Here is what works for us.
Forestay first hole - long as possible
Shrouds - 4th hole from the top, they are very loose

This leaves the mast free to flop to leeward. The combination of the rake and the mast off center to leeward gives the boat enough weather helm to sail upwind on the rudders.
Windward Trim
Light - 6-10 knots
Traveler center to down 2"
Main sheet in center hole of clew board.
Mainsheet tension to just stall upper leech tell tale about 50% of the time. Ends of upper battens are about parallel to boat center-line
Jib set soft until boat speed is up then in until upper inner telltale is streaming
Crew and skipper at the front beam. Weight to leeward to reduce drag.
You need speed. If you try to point the boat slides sideways and VMG to windward will be very low. Too much mainsheet will stall the leech and slow the boat. The top of the sail must twist off to reduce drag and keep the boat going. You can trim harder in a building breeze (more breeze than waves) than in a dying breeze (waves left over from more breeze require more power to punch through)

10-14
Traveler on center.
Mainsheet too-blocked.
Set twist with clew board. Top leech tell tale flicking behind sail about 50% of the time. Mainsheet aft closes leech. Mainsheet forward opens leech.
Jib snug after tack then sheeted hard after boat accelerates.
Crew and skipper move to windward as needed. Crew forward of shroud, skipper aft.

Tacking - much easier than 16 but not as easy with big rake. Keep the sails trimmed as you start the tack. Let the jib backwind until the battens pop on the main. Then trim snug on new tack to help keep the bow off the wind. Ease the main about a foot after the battens pop. check your heading is a bit low and center the rudders to let the boat accelerate. Trim hard as the boat comes back to speed.

With the rig set back and loose the boat goes into irons much easier than with the standard settings. Kind of like a 16 ... :-)

As the afternoon breezes get stronger and as I get more time in the boat I'll add to this.

If you are a bit geeky try RaceQs .. it is free for your smartphone. You can set it to start recording seal your phone in a ziplock bag and put it in a cooler. When you are off the boat just shut it down and upload the data to the server. You can then view your track and speed online using Google Earth. If you have a training partner you can see both boats at the same time. Very cool for trying different settings.

Cheers,
Randy

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 12:11 pm 
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I sail mine with less rake - forestay pinned on the 5th hole up, and shrouds tight as possible while on the trailer. This gives me neutral helm, which is my preference.

In regard to helm, when I purchased my Getaway (2012), there was different helm depending on what tack I was on. Everything was symmetrical (shroud length, rudders parallel, etc.) What it turned out to be was the foil section on the rudder blades had camber to them. One tack it was a lift, the other a stall. I remedied that by removing material from one side of the blade (the convex side) and that eliminated that problem. Thing is I also ordered new blades from Hobie last year - one blade had symmetrical chord, the other blade had a foil - I thought they had perfected the manufacturing process by now.

I owned and raced a Nacra 5.2 were tuning was critical to get the most speed, but with the Getaway's limits (it's a family boat, all it's missing are cup holders), I think getting the best start, sailing in clear air, tacking the least amount, having local knowledge for what side of the course is favored is most important.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 12:17 pm 
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Also, about flying a hull - I've noticed that soon after the windward hull leaves the water, the cross arms, and wings on the lee hull start getting submerged. This is 10-15 knots of wind 350 lbs of people meat on board. Once this happens the boat slows down - it feels like the fastest is when the keel/rudder on the windward side is still in the water.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 12:48 pm 
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Location: Benicia, CA
mojorizing wrote:
Also, about flying a hull - I've noticed that soon after the windward hull leaves the water, the cross arms, and wings on the lee hull start getting submerged. This is 10-15 knots of wind 350 lbs of people meat on board. Once this happens the boat slows down - it feels like the fastest is when the keel/rudder on the windward side is still in the water.


Thanks for the post. The boat is flatter; mast is more upright for more projected sail area; windward hull out so least friction...so it should be faster with windward hull just out of the water as you've experienced. Good to know that theory and experience match up!

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 2:16 pm 
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mojorizing wrote:
Also, about flying a hull - I've noticed that soon after the windward hull leaves the water, the cross arms, and wings on the lee hull start getting submerged. This is 10-15 knots of wind 350 lbs of people meat on board. Once this happens the boat slows down - it feels like the fastest is when the keel/rudder on the windward side is still in the water.


Yes. The GPS data logs show the boat is fastest when the windward hull is just out of the water before the leeward struts are adding drag. I'll have to setup a GoPro to sync with the data so I can display speed and how far the hull is up together.

The less rake, shrouds tight on the trailer trim does give a neutral helm. However my data shows poor performance to windward with that trim. Have you documented your sailing angles, speeds, and VMG? So far everything that works to make a 16 fast also works to make a Getaway faster. I've taken 5 minutes out of a 20 minute beat. A documented 20% improvement in VMG. I record a GPS track every day I practice so I can measure the boat's (and my) performance.

This shot shows a secondary benefit of the rig tune ... with the mast a few degrees to leeward it makes the boat easier to right ... :-)

I'm 62, my wife/crew is 57 ... Next time we will only lose 3 minutes not 7 ... she is a keeper!

Image

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-2014 Getaway w/wings,spinnaker,& trapeze


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 5:37 am 
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Looking at your pic I'm sure you've realized it by now, but your boat would be 75% easier to right if your mainsail wasn't fully sheeted in and cleated cupping a few thousand pounds of water before the mast is out :shock:

I'm passing this thread on to a buddy that's a new getaway owner. Good stuff

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:04 am 
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Fxloop wrote:
Looking at your pic I'm sure you've realized it by now, but your boat would be 75% easier to right if your mainsail wasn't fully sheeted in and cleated cupping a few thousand pounds of water before the mast is out :shock:

I'm passing this thread on to a buddy that's a new getaway owner. Good stuff


LOL ... actually we did uncleat the sheets before starting to right the boat. Notice my PFD? Clipped to the hiking strap ... with the mainsheet tangled with it ... yes ... if I had been wearing it the mainsheet would not have hung up.

The reality of a Getaway "tip over" (My wife says 'Capsize' is way too traumatic for what the Getaway did.) is Mama Bob and the hull hold the main pretty much out of the water. MUCH less water to move than a 16!

The standard righting line is long enough to pass behind you and lean against. It is too long to hold and pull on. Next time we'll dump the sheets for certain, I'll lean back into the righting line and have Wench stand on me ... er my wife ...

I suspect we wasted half of the recovery time thinking out what to do and finding what didn't work. We were stopped for about 7 minutes. I think a 2 minute recovery is a good target. If you can get the boat with the mast a bit to windward the float will hold the mast up enough the boat should almost right itself. I know from the wet side I though righting was going to be cake compared to my 16 ... that would have turtled ...

Last challenge was for old folk to get back on the boat. A 16 is easy, the transoms sink and they are easy to mount. The Getaway is a tall boat when you are in the water and it is trying to sail to the beach without you. We turned the rudders hard over to stop the boat and head it upwind. Then get your shoulders on the windward transom and kick a leg over the tiller bar. This lets you roll up onto the tramp easily. Trying to pull yourself up over the side with the wings in the way was not going to happen and the bow tramp has no hand holds. The next thing I'm going to try is making a loop from the traveler end of the mainsheet to use as a step.

Lots of fun and my lovely wife is a local heroine! Her frame of reference for "Capsize" vs "Tip Over" was from sailing a Laser II with me. She says, the Laser Capsized, the Hobie just tipped over. I'm not going to argue. :-)

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-2013 H16 #1`13780
-2014 Getaway w/wings,spinnaker,& trapeze


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:03 pm 
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Ha! Yeah, my wife had her first capsize with me last year. I've always been careful with the H-17s we used to have, not to dump it with her on board. With the kids, it was a different story...they thought it was fun.
She still doesn't think it was fun. :oops:

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 11:11 am 
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Couple curious things about the tip over photo if you would be so kind. That port looks familiar, is it Puerto Vallarta? Also, I note no whitecaps on the water...so wind was likely under 10 kts. Was it that light? Can you tip over a Getaway in that little breeze? If so, I'm going to be in big trouble with my boat where I sail since it rarely is under 15 kts in the summer around here.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:06 pm 
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tpdavis473 wrote:
Couple curious things about the tip over photo if you would be so kind. That port looks familiar, is it Puerto Vallarta? Also, I note no whitecaps on the water...so wind was likely under 10 kts. Was it that light? Can you tip over a Getaway in that little breeze? If so, I'm going to be in big trouble with my boat where I sail since it rarely is under 15 kts in the summer around here.


Yes Banderas Bay Mexico. The PV Sea Buoy was our turning mark and we were maybe 300 meters away.

Photos rarely show wind strength accurately. Was 10+ with a few whitecaps here and there and the wind was building and shifting left. I was on the low side and Leslie was in the middle of the tramp balancing the boat. A 125% of average wind speed gust came through and we did not react quickly. The other boats that were close to the mark also remember that was one of the bigger gusts as the breeze was coming up.

If we were trying to sail the boat flat would have been no problem ... we were trying to keep one hull just out of the water so we were pushing our luck. We've only been out in 15+ once so far and had no trouble. I think closer to 18 or so before we need crew on the wire.

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-2014 Getaway w/wings,spinnaker,& trapeze


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:22 pm 
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Thanks. That's a relief. I was worried...when I first got my Triak I found that it was designed for less wind than I usually get around here so the boat was pretty worthless to me until I depowered the sailplan.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:20 pm 
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Great thread here! We've sailed our Getaway from Fort Desoto to Key Largo, Florida (300 miles) twice during the Everglades Challenge. For positive confirmation - we've found the Getaway generally points about 55 degrees off the wind. I agree with your rake/rig tension settings for the forestay and shrouds. We also have a hobie 16 spinnaker rigged. I'm curious how you've rigged your spinnaker pole near the furler/bridle wires? The base of our spinnaker pole is attached at the cross beam and we have a simple heavy duty elastic cord wrapped around the spinnaker pole and to each bridle wire to raise the spin pole and prevent the bag from filling with water.


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