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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 7:24 pm 
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To this day, I raise the mast of my Getaway using brute force; i.e. with the boat on its trailer, after connecting the shrouds, I move the mast aft until I can place the mast base casting snug with the ball, I then stand at the rear crossbar, lift the mast on my shoulder, then push it up as I walk forward to the middle cross bar. I usually tie a line from the jib's clew around the front crossbar and back to one of the cleats on the mast so that once the mast is up, I can quickly secure it while I hop off the boat and go to the bow to connect the clew to the furler.

This procedure works, but there's no way my wife can do the same if for some reason I'm incapacitated (which almost happened when I broke a toe).

I checked the mast raising systems shown in the Hobie catalog, but they all state that they shouldn't be used with masts that must be sideways when lying down, as is the case with the Getaway.

I started rigging my own system using a winch with a strap and a roller at the top of the trailer's mast support. I also rigged two temporary stays between the plate where the jib's head attaches and small eye straps I riveted to the wing supports; this is to prevent the mast from swaying to the side as it goes up. I plan on connecting the hook from the strap to the jib's clew, but the angle between the leech and the mast when the mast is down is very acute and I'm concerned I may break something if I try lifting this way.

While putting all this together it became obvious to me why the commercial Mast Stepper systems don't recommend their use with these types of masts. The shape of the bottom mast casting prevents its fore-aft rotation until the mast is almost vertical. This totally precludes the use of a gin pole braced against the mast as it would suddenly swing sideways as the mast is raised.

I've seen a few post where people indicate that they're winching the mast up. Has anyone succeeded in creating such a system for solo mast raising?

Does anyone know the weight of the Getaway mast? I'd like to run some calculations to determine how much stress such a system would put on the ball and the rigging when the mast is still at a low angle.

And if I missed something obvious, please open my eyes as I sure would like to make this process easier!


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 7:28 pm 
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I keep my cat rigged on the beach, but on occasion i've had to lower it to do some sail repairs etc. The easiest way to do it solo it so have the bow facing down hill,,,that angle will assist in raising the mast and lowering it solo...


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 1:04 am 
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I dont really know how the Getaway mast raising occurs, because I dont understand how they could raise sideways and then become straight, while at the same time swinging around. If they are swinging around I can understand the locking mechanism, but then is it still doing damage to the mast base raising parts?
Anyway, without any real knowledge, an idea I've brewed is to have two gin poles, connected at the same place on the mast, and have their leverarm ends attached together by a third bar/pole/rod of length which makes a 90 degree or more triangle, and have the raising line attached in the center of that bar. That way it stabilizes the system more from rotation, and it raises all the way on its side.
No idea if that makes any sense. I see it working in my mind.

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Peter Scranton
'83 H14T - "The Abominable Snowman"
'98 Windrider 16


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 9:34 am 
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Location: Portland, OR
The mast base on the H16 for example has a hinge on the aft section of the casting. You insert a pin to complete the hinge when you raise the mast, then remove it wen the mast is up to let it rotate freely. In this case, the rotation cup is attached to the crossbar, and the ball (or male part) of the rotation system is attached to the mast.
Image

On the Getaway, Hobie did away with the hinge concept, and reversed the placement of the cup and ball. You simply position the mast base casting (cup) againsts the ball which is bolted through the crossbar. In order to clear the substantial size of the bolt, the cup is notched on the side (see photo).
Image

I suspect the reason for the notch to be on the side rather than aft is to allow the mast to rotate on the forward section of the mast, and for the aft edge of the mast to clear the trampoline when the mast is lying down.

While I understand Hobie's logic for this design, it certainly makes mast raising harder for folks like me who need to rig their cat for every use. May be they can redesign the mast base to slant the aft side (in order to clear the trampoline, and locate the notch on that aft edge.

Has anyone found some creative work around for this issue?


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 1:21 pm 
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you could create some support wires that go to a tang about 6 feet up the mast (low enough that they can be removed once it is raised), and the other ends go to the front crossbar by padeyes, or whatnot. They should be of a length that keeps the mast snug in the center when lying down, and the pivot points on the crossbars need to be aligned with the center of the ball joint which the mast holds on to. That way, the mast will not be allowed to rotate from a sideways position as it is raised.
then just connect the forestay and remove the support wires and your good to go.

It may be alot of work with all the riveting and whatever, but it will work. Those stays will need to be pretty exact though.

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Peter Scranton
'83 H14T - "The Abominable Snowman"
'98 Windrider 16


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 8:19 pm 
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Location: Portland, OR
Indeed, that's the purpose of the temporary guy wires I rigged from the mast tang (jib head) to the wing support. They do a good job of preventing sideways motion.

Years ago I had an O'Day 25 I used to cruise in the San Juan; that where I learn the very significant importance of proper guy wires during mast raising. The force from the line that pulls the mast up is extremely high at low angles, and once the mast starts to move sideways, very little can hold it back. The permanent shrouds do not attach to the hull in the same plan (crossbar) as the mast and therefore do not provide the necessary support until the mast is completely up.

However, that still doesn't solve how to pull the mast up. Because the mast lies down sideways, if you connect the cable or strap to the jib, the force tries to bring the mast in a fore-aft position which the mast base casting won't allow, increasing the friction and hence the required force to raise the mast.

The more I think about this issue, the less I believe there's a good solution! Maybe someone at Hobie has some clever idea... Matt?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:40 pm 
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How's this sound:

Take a long piece of line (50 ft, maybe more?). Find the center of the line, and wrap it around the mast a few times just above the mast tang. Bring both ends (long, and of roughly equal length) back to the front of the boat, tie them together, and hook to your winch, and proceed as normal.

The line is wrapped around the mast with one end coming off each side, and should lift the mast without trying to twist it on the base. As long as you keep tension on it, the turns shouldn't slip below the mast tang and should allow you to hoist the mast. When the mast is raised and the fore-stay attached, detach the line from your winch hook, and you should be able to "unwind" the turns of line off the mast from the ground.

That Doesn't help you lower the mast though... What's the getaway's halyard like? For lowering, could you tie the line around the mast at the bottom with a loose bowline, then hoist the loop up to the tang with the main halyard (can't go above tang because of shrouds/forstay), tie the halyard off on a mast cleat to keep the loop up, then proceed normally? Your halyard would be holding most of the load though... Think it could handle it?

Just my 2 cents.

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-Bill

Conesus Lake, NY
1976 Hobie 14


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 4:32 pm 
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This may sound stupid, but I just unhook my trailer from the truck when I am ready to step the mast, I get on the tramp and raise the mast and the forward leaning of the trailer and boat holds the mast loosely in place until I can get down and place the pin in place. Never has failed yet. :lol:

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The GrillingSailor
I'm always cooking, either on the Grill or on my Cat
H-16
Getaway
H-21 SC
Corsair F-27


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 5:24 pm 
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Grillingsailor wrote:
This may sound stupid, but I just unhook my trailer from the truck when I am ready to step the mast, I get on the tramp and raise the mast and the forward leaning of the trailer and boat holds the mast loosely in place until I can get down and place the pin in place. Never has failed yet. :lol:


that works for securing it, but the issue is raising it without brute force. i.e. making a system your grandma can use to raise the mast (or more importantly, safely lower it)

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Peter Scranton
'83 H14T - "The Abominable Snowman"
'98 Windrider 16


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 9:15 pm 
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Bill's idea would help with not twisting the mast, so I'll give this a try next week end, and find out whether the reduction in friction is enough to allow lifting the mast from such an acute angle. It won't help with opening the angle, but it may be just enough.

Thanks for tip Bill!


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 6:21 am 
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After reading further I went out to my boat and looked at my mast, what about buying two new smaller tangs and attaching them permenitly to the mast on both sides just above the main tang. Then creat a bridle out of what ever, line or wire and make some kind of quick release. Bring the bridle down and loop the bridle in the middle and put a shackle on it and secure it with wire crimps.
Then all you would have to do is hook it to your winch and haul away. Now as far as lowering the mast obviously you will not be able to reconnect to the new tangs but you could use my idea about diconnecting the trailer from the vehicle so that the mast remains in place while you release the headstay and then lower it by hand. I get where everyone is coming from on this but until you find away to keep a wire attached to the new tangs there will be know way of lowering the mast with out brut force.

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The GrillingSailor
I'm always cooking, either on the Grill or on my Cat
H-16
Getaway
H-21 SC
Corsair F-27


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 10:32 am 
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wait, what do you mean by bridle? do u mean a forestay coming off the new tangs? or do u mean wires going to each of the bridle wires? im confused. i like the idea of adding tangs because its more permanent than just a line which is rubbing against the original tang and eventually wearing out.

By the way on the topic of that line and getting it to loop all the way back up. shouldnt you just be able to put the line in loops all the way around the shrouds, trap wires, and forestay/bridles, and then pull it taught so that it will travel all the way up the rigging to the tang, and then with a little whipping of the line, it could be above the tang. so you could lower it that way, without using the main halyard.
so actually that plan might work fine.

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Peter Scranton
'83 H14T - "The Abominable Snowman"
'98 Windrider 16


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 9:15 pm 
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Location: Portland, OR
having a loop around the mast and bringing it up to the headstay tang, as Bill originally described, fulfills the purpose of not pulling sideways on the mast, which will reduce the friction due to the mast rotation.

It doesn't help with increasing the angle, but every little thing helps. So far, this looks likes the simplest setup, and I'm going to try this weekend (unfortunately my days are too long and I can't do this after work :cry: ).

If I can reliably pull the mast up using a winch, it may not be too far from rigging a gin pole braced against the side section of the mast to increase the angle and reduce the stress on the winch. I may be seeing the light at the end of that tunnel :P .


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 12:02 am 
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now whatever works, you just need to make a video of it, get tons of the lengths of line, and some gin poles, and start selling the Getaway SimpleSteppers (since EZ Stepper is taken).

good luck. this has truly been a great thread

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Peter Scranton
'83 H14T - "The Abominable Snowman"
'98 Windrider 16


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 Post subject: make it simple
PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 7:55 am 
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Before we go out and buy tangs, funky shrouds and what not,....lets look at the heart of our delima The mast foot. The getaway is designed for your not so aggressive sailor that really doesn't want work to hard at some performance. ONE PROBLEM and the only one that requires brute strength is raising the damn mast. I use a block system with a cleat attachted to the forestay and alot of line. Not very good way but helps a little. I would like to see the mast foot design changed to a hinge similar to the 16. Eliminate the rotation of the lift and then we can figure out the rest. So,....you guys at Hobie make me a different mastfoot casting with a hinge and I'll buy it and I'm sure others would do the same. My "back" would thank you.


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