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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 11:13 pm 
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Hello all. My first post.
I have never sailed before. I just bought a book and have not even opened yet. I'm in New Mexico and there is only one lake to sail.
I'd like to retire in 5 years and sail a 30-35' cat for retirement.
I've always been a power boat guy.
I need to learn to sail. I'll probably take a lesson or two, then hit the water.
I cannot find a small catamaran within about 600 miles. However, I just ran into a Hobie Wave from 1998. I took some pictures behind a fence and made a call. They are asking $1,400 with a trailer.

Is this a good cat to learn on? What should I inspect? I will sail about 90% of the time alone and 5% with my wife, and maybe...5% with wife and son if it isn't too boring for him (18yr old).
Please do not use any boat lingo as I know nothing except sail, mast, boom, trampoline, rudder, etc.

I can find a hobie 17 with wings for $2,800. However, it's ten hours away.

Thanks all.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 11:12 am 
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Location: BC, Canada
serpa4 wrote:
They are asking $1,400 with a trailer.


At this price a Wave is a bargain. Check for cracks. If you find any, walk away. Wave hulls are made of polyethylene and therefore not repairable. Otherwise, check if the boat is not missing any parts, sail condition, trailer condition, etc.

serpa4 wrote:
I can find a hobie 17 with wings for $2,800. However, it's ten hours away.

H17 and Wave are very different animals. You compare VW Jetta to a Corvette (but not a Ferrari). The Wave would be much easier to learn, rig, handle, etc. H17 is much faster boat, but you will on a steep learning curve. H17 wings are great. H17 has many potential issues, I would research this, and check with the seller before investing into a 10h drive.

What are winds like where you live? If it blows 10-15 knts on a regular basis, you will have great fun with a Wave. Then if 3-7 knots is normal, a Wave will be slow.

Good luck and welcome to Hobie community. :)

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 12:05 pm 
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Thanks, look for cracks.
It has been stored on a lot and doesn't look like it is covered. Looking through the fence at it, the pontoons don't look yellowed or old. I'll absolutely inspect closely before purchasing.
The trampoline is a bit dirty and looks "older", but not sure.
If it needs a tramp, what kind of money are we talking?
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 11:32 am 
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Location: Rockford, IL
The question came to mind, if you've never sailed, why are you planning on retiring on a big catamaran? Why not a monohull, or why even a sailboat at all? But that's your business, of course! :)

When I buy a boat (and I've bought a lot of sailboats over the years) I ask the seller to rig it with me on the trailer before I buy it. That way (A) I learn how to rig it, and (B) I can look for missing or damaged parts. If at all possible, hoist the sail (face the trailer into the wind) so you check the halyard and mainsheet hook up. Include the rudders, tiller, etc so you can check them out in position.

I don't know the Wave at all, so I don't know if it has outhaul, downhaul/cunningham, vang or any of the other variations in rigging. BUT, you can get a copy of the Wave assembly manual from this site, print it out, and compare it to the boat as rigged. Here's a link to the manual: http://www.hobiecat.com/support/wave/

I know there are a couple of different versions of the Wave that have a different trampoline arrangement. I don't know the details, but I'm sure the Wave owners can help you with that.

From the photo, I would say it's a good deal. Boat has the backrests which are nice. Hulls don't have any obvious problems from the photo. Like previous people have said, hull damage is a deal breaker on a roto-molded boat. Fiberglass boats can be fixed, but not roto-molded, at least not easily and reliably. Mainsails are expensive, so look it over for tears. Mildew won't be a problem down there. Trampolines aren't expensive. You can buy Hobie or aftermarket. I lean towards Hobie factory parts in most cases, they are superior. But you can find them on eBay for around $250.

Personally, I would plan on replacing the shrouds (side and forestays). I had a side shroud break on a used boat and was dismasted. The seller said the shrouds were recently replaced, obviously they weren't. A shroud set on eBay for the Wave is $100. Cheap insurance. Also on eBay currently is a 2010 Hobie Wave for $3900.

I've had 2 Hobie 17s. They are solo racers. By yourself, it's great. If you and your wife are medium sized or small, it's Ok for the two of you. 3 Adults? Forget it. It'll be submerged. Length on a Hobie doesn't determine how "big" it is, i.e., its carrying capacity. I bought the 17 in the belief that it would carry passengers better than the 16, and an unscrupulous dealer let me believe that. I would have been better served with a Hobie 16.

I don't know how the Wave is for 3 adults, again, the Wave owners can help you out. There are a number of potential trouble areas on the 17; notice that I now own a Hobie Getaway instead of a Hobie 17. The Getaway is more like a really big Wave: simple, reliable, rugged. For my first sailboat, I would NOT buy a used Hobie 17. My first sailboat was a brand new Hobie 17, some years later I bought a used Hobie 17. I know that boat really well, and I still ended up with a boat with a lot of problems (that was the boat that dismasted, and that wasn't even the most serious problem I had with that boat.)

For a first boat, I think the Wave is great. If the hulls and mainsail are OK, I would get that one. Everything else is replaceable at a reasonable price. The price is right, and heck, he might come down a bit. Like I said in the beginning, have him rig it and check it out. Then go have fun!

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Yet another Bob!


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 12:40 pm 
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$1400 is a good deal. I paid $1000 for mine and it has/had cracked hulls. I recently repaired the hull cracks and so far so good (there is a post on my G-Flex repairs), but time will tell.

There is not much to the wave.
Check the hulls around the cross bars for cracks and on the bottom for wear. Check the sail for rips and crispness. Plan on replacing the main-sheet line, the down haul line and the standing rigging.

I can put my family of three on the boat and in 20+ mph winds I can get a hull out of the water. The boat is more comfortable with two and is great solo. I can rig it solo in less than 20 minutes and that includes the jib (optional).

I see a spreader bar on the bows, this may indicate there is a jib with the boat. The back rest are nice and worth more than 1/2 the asking price.

Buy it before someone else does and plan on putting at least another $500 into it. Rigging, tramp and ropes will quickly eat the $500.

edit. the access hole between the seat pads is weird. I am not sure if that is factory. You will find that your crew will be sitting in that area when the winds are up. Also, I don't see the jib cleats, so there is probably not a jib with it.
You may find that the tramp is wasted from the sun and the velcro straps that hold it to the rear cross bar may also be shot.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 7:34 pm 
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Do the wave's have two piece masts?? the pic shows two sections? I didn't know that. Vinyl trampoline? You may need a new one. Also, find out where mainsheet, blocks and sail are and look those over. If all those are good looks like a potential solid deal. On vacation, several of of us took out a wave, it seemed VERY buoyant, more-so than my Hobie 16.

_________________
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Memphis, TN

1978 H16
1986 H16
1980 H16
1996 H20 Miracle
Barn find bright H16. Solid as a rock!


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:46 am 
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The boat is a steal. The tramp is solid white and they last and last. Mine is a 95 and still have the original white 'classic' tramp, even though it is not real pretty. The boat appears to be sound, and there are ways to repair the polyethylene, though probably not if there is a major hole. Cracks on the forward bridle connections are a sign of abuse, but the pictures look like this one is well treated and it is a clean boat. You will not regret buying it and will get as much or more out if it should you want to put it up for sale later. They hold their value. Also an excellent boat to take along on your big boat as it breaks down easily. Lastly, if you don't buy it, please let me know as I have somebody here in Nevada looking for one, as well as another in Cali. Fastest growing racing class in the Hobie Class Racing Association, and we love racing the little chunk of plastic. Indestructible.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 12:53 am 
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I purchased it today. I think I need a sail, trampoline, and three 7-Hole Stay Adjusters. IF you have a chance, what else do you think I need to buy? Ropes look old. The tiller handle joints are a bit wobbly. What do I do with the wood around the inspection ports? Can I just pry them off, clean, and put new wood there?

What sail do I need if you know and what trampoline do I need? The trampoline velcro is pretty beat and thread is pulling out. The sun killed it.

They guy camp down $350. There isn't much boating action here, so guess he's been trying for awhile. I ended up paying $1050.
There are a lot of pictures.
I'm thinking I need to take it to a Hobie dealer to get serviced, sails, and trampoline. I'm quite capable of doing my own handy work, but not sure what to buy and replace.

http://s172.photobucket.com/user/serpa44/library/

Thanks for any help. I'm excited to try it out.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 3:45 am 
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Location: Jersey Shore
The sail and tramp look pretty well fried. I would start budgeting for replacements now. They may last a few more seasons or they may not last more than an outing or two. The sun is the major killer of those components, so do what you can to keep everything covered when not in use.

That boat has the original rudder system which is the same system that's used on many of the larger Hobies. I would take the time to familiarize yourself with how the system works, it's not totally intuitive. You will definitely want to know how to properly lock down the rudders while sailing because having the rudders all the way down vs. only part of the way down will make all the difference in your sailing experience. I would recommend replacing the rudder cams and giving the whole system an overhaul (clean and re-grease the mechanism).

Also, you have the older mast step system. Don't forget to install a mast chip so your mast rotates properly.

I suggest you download a copy of the Hobie catalog which has reference for all the replacement parts you need. You can also check out the manuals on this site if you haven't already. http://www.hobiecat.com/support/wave/

sm


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 9:00 am 
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good advice from sm.

Your model is 3 years newer than mine. The trampoline, while it has sunburn, might still hold up for years as the solid vinyl holds up much better than any mesh. After a wash take a terry cloth and spray some brake cleaner on it and wipe down. It will take off the burn and leave it cleaner looking. My white vinyl is 20 years old and in sun the whole time and still is good to go, though not real pretty. So, if you want a fresh new look, and are particular about such things, then buy a new one.

The factory put the old H14 mast base and step on the first 1400 models or so, and I like it better than the newer style. If you are not racing the boat, then no need to fuss with tuning, but it is essential to keep the rig snug so that there is no chance of the base jumping out of the step in a capsize. That is, even though it is a rare thing to go over on these.

I don't like inspection ports at all on this boat. Just don't see a reason for it other than to stow stuff. Didn't see the wood before, but that is not a good idea in my experience on installing such things on the glass boats. You should consider a new set of ports for sure and flush mount. Do not use silicone as it does not remain adhered and will leak. G-Flex, 50 year Polyurethane door and window sealant, DP8020 are the best adhesives.

The drain plugs. If you have an allen screw type plug, then you have the problem of the bushing eventually stripping. If the screw comes in and out now, then fine, but if you find it strips the bushing at any time, you will have to run a 7/8 holesaw around it and replace with the standard hobie drainplug you see on the glass boats. Easy repair. Again, choose your sealant wisely as few adhere to polyethylene.

Didn't see a picture of the sail? Is it coming apart at all? A sail that old may be slightly faded, but it is a big expense to replace. If it is all together, well, it's your call.

Every used boat needs work. You stole this one.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 1:56 pm 
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Gordo Bagley wrote:
good advice from sm.

Your model is 3 years newer than mine. The trampoline, while it has sunburn, might still hold up for years as the solid vinyl holds up much better than any mesh. After a wash take a terry cloth and spray some brake cleaner on it and wipe down. It will take off the burn and leave it cleaner looking. My white vinyl is 20 years old and in sun the whole time and still is good to go, though not real pretty. So, if you want a fresh new look, and are particular about such things, then buy a new one.

The factory put the old H14 mast base and step on the first 1400 models or so, and I like it better than the newer style. If you are not racing the boat, then no need to fuss with tuning, but it is essential to keep the rig snug so that there is no chance of the base jumping out of the step in a capsize. That is, even though it is a rare thing to go over on these.

I don't like inspection ports at all on this boat. Just don't see a reason for it other than to stow stuff. Didn't see the wood before, but that is not a good idea in my experience on installing such things on the glass boats. You should consider a new set of ports for sure and flush mount. Do not use silicone as it does not remain adhered and will leak. G-Flex, 50 year Polyurethane door and window sealant, DP8020 are the best adhesives.

The drain plugs. If you have an allen screw type plug, then you have the problem of the bushing eventually stripping. If the screw comes in and out now, then fine, but if you find it strips the bushing at any time, you will have to run a 7/8 hole saw around it and replace with the standard Hobie drain plug you see on the glass boats. Easy repair. Again, choose your sealant wisely as few adhere to polyethylene.

Didn't see a picture of the sail? Is it coming apart at all? A sail that old may be slightly faded, but it is a big expense to replace. If it is all together, well, it's your call.

Every used boat needs work. You stole this one.

Thank you everyone for the help.
So, from the readings above, I need:
Classic Trampoline 3897xxxx. The velcro straps at the back of the tramp (I assume they are part of it) have rotting threads. The cloth is peeling away from the velcro. $649.
---I found a Hobie Wave Tramp Strap "Velcro trampoline tensioning strap for Wave SE,, 4 required. Can just the velcro be replaced? http://sailsportmarine.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=474

Ruder Cam: 10480000. I assume two. Plastic=$10 each

Sail: 3899xxxx, but think I will use what I have and see. How do you really know if you need a new one? They are $971 on Murrays.com.

(3) 7-hole stay adjusters 20830010 at $7 each , (5) Clevis pins 8020381, (5) Ring Dings 20860000

(8) tramp tubes since they look old and crusty. 8x$8 each. $64

What do you do for ropes? The boat is on a storage lot an hour away. Are all the ropes the same size and are they special, or can I get them anywhere and cut to size?
The tiller connector on mine looks different than the parts guide. I have no pins or and caps, shock cords, etc. Only a plastic 90 elbow. Anyone know a part number?


Thanks again everyone!


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 6:56 pm 
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Location: Kitchener, ON, Canada.
serpa4 wrote:
Classic Trampoline 3897xxxx. The velcro straps at the back of the tramp (I assume they are part of it)

No. They are separate parts.
serpa4 wrote:
---I found a Hobie Wave Tramp Strap "Velcro trampoline tensioning strap for Wave SE,, 4 required. Can just the velcro be replaced? http://sailsportmarine.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=474
Yep. These are velcro straps.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 9:17 pm 
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Thanks. Guess I'll try the tramp cleaning and velcro befor replacung them! Excellent and much cheaper. I assume I can tighten the tramp also.
What are the two holes in the middle of the tramp? Drains I assume.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 9:56 am 
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The two grommets on the center line of the tramp are scuppers (drains). The Classic model solid tramp gathers a pond of water. You can have more grommets installed to increase efficiency. Only other alternative is a new mesh tramp.

The cup holders on my tramp were rotted out so I glued coozies in with marine goop.

The threadbare velcro straps usually work if you wrap thin cord around them to keep them from coming loose. Personally, I'm not at all concerned about aesthetics as I race the boat and train heavily on it, and besides, my budget is thin in the 'recovered' economy.

Any 7/8 or 1" aluminum tubing will do the job for the sides. Just cut to size. Schedule 80 pvc will work as well.

Rudder cam installation tip. Drill all the flange out of one side of the press pins. Remove and get a small threading tap that will thread the inside of the pin and get a countersunk machine screw to insert. If not, then you need to buy a pair of the longer 'sister screws' that will fit the wider H-17/18/20 castings.

If the tiller extension works, don't change it. Such a simple boat that just about any jury rigged tiller will suffice that will hold up to the riggers of sailing. I like the tiller extension length to be such that when perpendicular to the tiller crossbar, it falls a few inches short of the mast base.

Whatever you do, do not put a traveler track on that boat. Not only is it major surgery, but it does nothing for the boat's performance, ease of operation and increases the risk of tangling up the mainsheet. All accessories for the boat were designed after the boat was, to fill demand. The boat is best as originally designed. Uni-rig with two strings to pull, the main sheet and down haul.

Since I have my own parts cache, I don't really know parts #'s, but remember, if you ever kink your mast, if you are short on cash just find an old H14 mast section and cut the extrusion to size and put the HW on. Lot of old stuff laying in back yards around the SW. Keep your eye out for an old rotten H-14's so you have a spare mast tube.

You've got a good boat there friend!


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 10:21 am 
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Thank you for the tips. Will aluminum wear away the cables? Sounds like a sturdy fix. Is there a thread on the rudder cam? I'm not fully grasping what you are saying. Also, what are the benefits for the cam mod/replacement?
Thanks for the education.


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