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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:20 pm 
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Location: Vancouver Island, Canada
Hey All
Head sails have changed since when I first crewed on a race tuned San Juan 24 back in the 70's when a spinnaker could only be used as a down wind sail with very little leeway towards a reach. That included having to haul a spinnaker pole off deck, attach the uphaul and downhaul lines, making sure that you didn't snag the whole mess on a jibe... :x
Whatever, that was then this is now.
Sometimes after that some bright mind invented the Gennaker. It did away with the pole by attaching a bridle to the Roller furled Jib with a simple down haul line to keep it from riding up on the jib, and re cutting the symetrical chute to combine a Spinnaker with a Genoa.
When I first installed a used Spinnaker on my '84 US built Catalina 27, it was useless without a pole. (My previous bare boat charter clients dropped the pole into the drink). I took the sail to the fine people at North Sails in Richmond, BC who recut it as a Gennaker complete with the needed hardware.
The first time I launched it, I was in Bliss, as my boat took off like a rocket in a 15 knot breeze. However it didn't take me long for me to figure out that on anything close to a reach this sail sucked (and became down right dangerous).
I took it back to North Sails and asked them to flatten it. They did a superb job on it and it allowed an almost true reach.

So what does this have to do with the Spinnaker on a Wave?
Well instead of calling it a 'Spinnaker', I think a Gennaker might be the right name for it.
The standard spinnaker sold by Hobie is an Asymmetrical Spinnaker. It has been noted on other sites that this basic sail can be recut flatter and allow a far better latitude to allow the user almost 180 degrees of usage at the expense of down wind ability. Considering that a Cat has problems when going directly downwind, I would consider a flattened chute as a huge bonus in performance simply by sailing off the usual downwind wing on wing arrangement.

If that is the intended use, I strongly recommend that cam cleats are installed for the sheet(s) to take the weight off.

There is also one fact that you cannot dismiss if you are thinking of a larger Chute for the Wave: The difference between the Shroud tang and the Spinnaker tang is 20 inches. Think strongly before you drill into the composite part of the mast as this is the last place where you would want to leave holes. However adding another, higher tang could also be a possibility down the line to use the lower for higher winds and the higher one for light airs (but will need an extra line...etc. etc. A larger kite will also probably need a lengthened pole with built in pre-stress and modified pole rigging...

...this is where I believe Jack Woehrle should take over on this conversation as he has far more experience in this matter than myself because he has taken this small boat way above the norm with amazing results. :)

Your opinions are sincerely welcomed.
Tri

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 4:57 pm 
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Trinomite wrote:
Hey All


There is also one fact that you cannot dismiss if you are thinking of a larger Chute for the Wave: The difference between the Shroud tang and the Spinnaker tang is 20 inches. Think strongly before you drill into the composite part of the mast as this is the last place where you would want to leave holes. However adding another, higher tang could also be a possibility down the line to use the lower for higher winds and the higher one for light airs (but will need an extra line...etc. etc. A larger kite will also probably need a lengthened pole with built in pre-stress and modified pole rigging...

...this is where I believe Jack Woehrle should take over on this conversation as he has far more experience in this matter than myself because he has taken this small boat way above the norm with amazing results. :)

Your opinions are sincerely welcomed.
Tri



Thanks for the kind words, even if they may not be totally deserved.

I can't speak for the Hobie factory spinnaker kit. I would guess that you should use it and rig it the way they say.

In my opinion and observation, the Wave can carry a larger chute with no problem either with the rigging or handling.

My halyard tang is right below and slightly offset from the main halyard hook. I think the comp tip can support it but you MUST remember to keep the mainsheet tight. It acts as a backstay. NEVER release the mainsheet with the spinnaker drawing in a breeze. This is standard cat technique.

My sheet ratchet blocks are at the shroud base for two reasons. You don't want a lot of overlap on a cat and I didn't want to go through the hull. I suppose you could use the 1/4x20 screw receptacles that are on the outside (and inside) of every hull. I'm not sure how much they will hold though. I have a piece of wood screwed though the tramp lacing grommets at the center of my track. This has several clam cleats for the spinnaker sheets and furling line.

My pole is longer (10') than you need. I think 7 1/2' is about right. If you use a strong enough pole, you can just tie it to the spreader bar. I wanted a lighter pole so I needed extra guys and bracing.

If you are using a roller furler, the tip of the pole needs to be very well supported or you won't get enough luff tension and furling will be difficult.

On a Wave, nothing will allow you to go faster upwind than the mainsail alone. You won't point as high with a jib, and it will be even worse with a hooter or gennaker.

80 to 140 degress is pretty much the useful range. In that range, especially when it is 8-15 knots, it is very fast and easy to control. Above that and you will drink a lot of water. Below that and it works but the results aren't nearly so profound.

As a racing tool, it has basic limitations. Unless you are in a distance race and it is mostly in the 80 -140 degree range, you will not make up enough speed to offset what you lose upwind or dead down wind or at mark roundings.

I should take some pictures of the details. I wasn't expecting to be writing a tutorial, but I guess I set myself up for this.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 6:55 pm 
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Location: Vancouver Island, Canada
Hi Jack
Please, you are not required to post a tutorial unless you wish to do so.
I've looked very closely at your rig and it does not need an 'splain. It's great just at it is, from what I can tell in Photoshop. (I also realize that any after market engineering is not a given as there are pros and cons to any sets of Mods. If not, Ford or GM would have designed a working flying car years ago, :lol:)
Your insight on how your boat handles is also very insightful.

My reason about bitching about the standard spin hardware kit is that is has extra parts, parts missing, and the worst set of instructions that I've ever read.
Yet any input is highly welcome to get another person's view of where the limits are. Many thanks for that Jack.

As someone that has modified boats and homes in my past, I believe check twice as you measure, draw it out and twice measure it again before you get out the drill, seems to have worked in the past.

Every company in the same business has different ways of doing the same thing. Some just may not be as common as to what is expected as a standard for technical instructions that is acceptable to their customers.
Having been told by Hobie staff that these instructions are designed for a pro installer or a dealer, why is there no mention of this in their Sailing parts catalogue??

May I pass you this URL and ask for your opinion on these sets of instructions:

http://www.hobiecat.com.au/pdf/support/spinnakers.pdf

Cheers
Tri

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:38 pm 
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Jack you said:
"My halyard tang is right below and slightly offset from the main halyard hook. I think the comp tip can support it but you MUST remember to keep the mainsheet tight. It acts as a backstay. NEVER release the mainsheet with the spinnaker drawing in a breeze. This is standard cat technique."

Agreed, not only on a Cat but a mono and a Tri. I hope that you did not have to find that out the hard way...
The lack of a back stay on any boat will be a concern especially when the chute tries to rip off the side stays when a heavy load is placed on the shrouds from the chute (much more so in gusting conditions). Hunter Yachts tried that system and it simply could not be sold to the general sailing public. Their reason for this was a way to try to beat Catalina Yachts in innovation and keep the entire cockpit clear of obstructions.
Using a dual adjustable backstay in that respect could be highly beneficial as a means to spread the forces with a larger bridle system such as is used on the bows. (my own opinion). This would require chain plates attached to the stern part of the hulls to clear the sail. As the back stays would be adjustable, it would be a pain to remove the tension on the backstays to allow a jibe or a tack.
As the ounces of the extra rigging adds up to pounds, I believe that the law of diminishing returns will be broken on a small boat such as the Wave and get us back to this basic...
KISS...

(However, I would like to explore that option when I'm done with my other mods)

Best Regards
Tri

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