Trolling under sail

First of all, thanks to AlohaDan and others who have posted so much useful info.

I am an experienced yak angler and am always trying out new things. I have had an AI for nearly 3 years now and usually troll under pedal power. I have been playing with deeper running rigs, everything from deep diving lures to trolling weights and flashers. I have rigged up some planers but have not used them yet.

Here are my assorted questions:

1. What are you using successfully to troll depths of 50 or more feet?

2. The deeper rigs tend to put a lot of pressure on my forward mounted Ram tubes, often pulling them horizontal and to the rear. I have switched to the built in rod holders for deeper rigs but am also concerned about the pressuer on the rormold. Any ideas to help?

3. Are you using release clips or just a single line to include weights, lures, skirts, etc.

4. Are you trolling multiple lines while under sail? Differing depths? Differing lengths behind??

5. So far with trolling under sail, when I get a strike, I usually just turn up wind, control the fish, maybe furl or not depending on the fight. Also, depending on the fight I may or may not clear the other line. Does this sound consistent with your method?

6. How do you determine the depths you achieve? I know there is probably a method for calculating but I don't know how to do it. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks for any advice, input.

Ted

I am in the habit of trolling or only working with 2 rods when AI Sail Fishing

I find that 2 lines out takes a lot of attention

most of the fishing I am doing is near the surface when I am Sail Fishing

I to will turn into the wind to slow down or furl in the sail to fight the big ones

I have also been playing around with circling the fish while under sail, by making large circles around the action. This also gives me the ability to chase down the fish - try it, its fun

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Al aka "YAKMAN"

6. How do you determine the depths you achieve? I know there is probably a method for calculating but I don't know how to do it. Any help would be appreciated.

On the KFS forum there is a fairly famous kayak fisherman named "Sifsto" he speaks about a reel, and forgive me I forgot the maker, which gives you the depth or maybe how much line is out and he then can calculate the depth of his lure. He also has a depth finder, so he know how deep he is fishing.

I am going to ask him for the scope

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Al aka "YAKMAN"

You probably could use a Shakespeare line counter like this.Line goes under a roller when it goes out and then with the flip of a switch it releases to fight the fish. It's less that $15 and could be used with different reels.

"The reel you mention is an abu garcia 6500LC (line counter), I have mine spooled with 50# suffix braid in green. It takes all the guess work out of trolling and knowing how much line to let out. Using a TNW, I start out at 80ft, but mostly it's 150ft that I have the most success. Trolling plugs is a breeze with this, again I'm out at 80ft most of the time. The rod I'm using has a huge impact on success, that's a st croix pro glass (discontinued)in a 8' med action casting. The energy this rod has is amazing, it works the plugs/TNW for you; and has pleanty of backbone to fight huge fish. I don't know what the new st croix rod is that replaced these, but would buy one if I knew."

Librarian - nice to see you up on the Hobie Forum

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Al aka "YAKMAN"

I mounted a Scotty Laketroller to my Outback last week and got to take it out for a spin this weekend. I have to say, I couldn't be happier. First time out was Friday night, and since I was out past dark, I only trolled when I could see. It was my first time trolling with a downrigger so I wasn't comfortable at night with the rigging. I didn't bring the sail as the winds were supposed to die down after dark. It worked great from what I could tell with the limited time I had to check it out.

Sunday I got to go out and try the new downrigger and the sail. What a combo. I am totally thrilled with this new setup, and can't wait to get more time in.

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Isaac

Librarian, thanks for the idea. I have a line counter and use it for spooling line. I never thought of taking it with me on the yak. While it will help by telling me how much line I have out, it won't tell me how deep I am. That would appear to be a geometric problem that involves current speed, boat speed with or against the current, weight and drag on the line.

Does anyone have a simple (do it in my head while fishing) formula for estimating lure/bait depth. Something simple like X times depth will be the approximate depth at normal 2MPH kayak trolling speed. Of course since I am trolling under sail the speed is much faster.

Maybe I should just fish the surface.

it sure would be cool if there was something that you can troll that would show up on the depth finder, then at least you will be able to put the lure at the same area as the fish

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Al aka "YAKMAN"

I havn't rigged my fishfinder on my AI yet (working on it ) but on my PB I see the trolling weight (10 lb ) as a straight line on my ff display,I am hoping to see the same effect on my AI when rigged.

John F

no formula

But I also stopped guessing by using the laketroller, 1 rotation of the spool means 1 foot up/down, using floating shallow-diving lures to avoid snagging.
Planning to replace the steel cable for much thinner braid to minimise drag.

PF

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hobie Quest

Good post going here w/ some good info. First and foremost I think the linecounter issue should be taken up. It really means how much line you have out and not how deep your gear is. Well, unless you're sitting still. Just like Yakman posted. Because of the resistance of the water your gear will be behind you, not straight down. That means while you may have 20 feet of line out it's possible your gear is only 10 feet deep. So in essence the angle of the line is a very important factor in knowing how deep your gear is.

So how can we figure out how deep our gear is? What I like to do is some calibrating before getting down to work. If I'm using a planer and/or flasher I'll put them both on w/o lures and deploy them in an area that's 10 feet deep. I'll pedal the same speed and direction into the wind or tide as I will when I get down to fishing. When letting them out I'll be counting pulls on the line and noting the angle of the line from my rod tip to the water. Somewhere between 40-45 degrees is acceptable. Once the planer starts bouncing on the bottom I make a note of the amount of pulls it takes to get to 10 feet of water. Now I can roughly multiply those pulls to the depth I want to get. So if it took 8 pulls with a line angle of 45 degrees to get 10 feet then I can get to 30 feet with 24 pulls. Although there are variables that do make this an estimation, it's still the most accurate way to fish planers IMO. That's why I seldom troll with planers.

Now with a downrigger I believe you can be much more consistent at getting the depth that you want. Although it's not an exact science the following has worked for me.

First, let's say I want to troll in 120' of water. I'll put out my downrigger w/ the ball (and flasher if being used) only while going at the trolling speed and desired direction. I keep letting out line while monitoring the line angle and turns of the downrigger handle. Once the ball starts bouncing bottom I'll know for that day that, for example, 100 cranks with a line angle of 45 degrees equals 120' of water. That means for today 1.2 cranks equals one foot in depth. So if the fish are suspending at 100' that day then I divide 100 by 1.2 to get 83 cranks on the downrigger which should get my gear to the right depth. Ultimately there is no fool proof way to get our gear exactly to the depth we want but in the "strike zone" is good enough.

One note I did want to make about all of this is that depending on the bottom surface your gear can get snagged while calibrating so once you start bouncing bottom immediately crank back in a bit.

Hope this helps!

Z

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First of all, thanks to AlohaDan and others who have posted so much useful info.

Thanks. Have been laid up and haven't checked in here for awhile.

I am an experienced yak angler and am always trying out new things. I have had an AI for nearly 3 years now and usually troll under pedal power. I have been playing with deeper running rigs, everything from deep diving lures to trolling weights and flashers. I have rigged up some planers but have not used them yet.

Here are my assorted questions:

1. What are you using successfully to troll depths of 50 or more feet?


I use a deep diver sometimes, but not under sail. Under sail I have tried diving plugs like Rappela, but not too much success compared to a weighted bait running 5-10 feet deep.

If your going deep under sail, slow down. If you don't want to pedal furl in and jug along at 2-3 knots max.

2. The deeper rigs tend to put a lot of pressure on my forward mounted Ram tubes, often pulling them horizontal and to the rear. I have switched to the built in rod holders for deeper rigs but am also concerned about the pressuer on the rormold. Any ideas to help?

One of the reasons I quit using RAM tubes was because of this collapse under pelagic hits. So far haven't had a problem using molded in holders aft except for:

A. Two line configurations.

B. Mainsheet knocking rods overboard ( use heavy duty safety straps)

See my thread on building a rod holder so you can troll 2 lines

http://www.hobiecat.com/community/viewtopic.php?t=9275

3. Are you using release clips or just a single line to include weights, lures, skirts, etc.


I use a single line most of the time., even with a small bird. Still experimenting using a "green stick" approach employing the mast . I have fidled with using a release clip when pedalling, not sailing, to give the lure more jerky action.

http://www.hobiecat.com/community/viewtopic.php?t=10061

4. Are you trolling multiple lines while under sail? Differing depths? Differing lengths behind??

Two lines when bait fish (aku) are around. Guys here will run the short one deeper. Sometimes only 50-60 feet back. For bait fish I'm 200 or so back to avoid spooking them. Plastic pink nehu (anchovie).

Turn toward the longer line if possible when changing course. Or what I will do sometimes is turn 10-15 degrees only, pedal like hell for a count of 60, go another 15 degrees, etc.

If the wind is strong enough to run a bird, I run it long with a lure. Then drop second line with a bait fish (opelu=mackerel scad) on it back so it's about 10-15 in front of the bird.

I have had some interest from small marlin, but so far no hookups.

5. So far with trolling under sail, when I get a strike, I usually just turn up wind, control the fish, maybe furl or not depending on the fight. Also, depending on the fight I may or may not clear the other line. Does this sound consistent with your method?

Pretty much the same. The bigger the fish, the more the sail is furled, and for the really big ones I try to dismount it so I have a clear deck.

6. How do you determine the depths you achieve? I know there is probably a method for calculating but I don't know how to do it. Any help would be appreciated.

If you know the length of you line out (I'd mark the first 50, and 1st and sceond 100 with dental floss.) If your line enters the water at ~30 degrees your depth will be half the length of line out. More likely less than that.

Lot of these tactics depend on what your fishing for.

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