Hobie Cat Forums

It is currently Sat Oct 25, 2014 8:38 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 6:36 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Sat Jun 15, 2013 12:52 pm
Posts: 9
I demoed the Outback and then the PA 14 at South River Outfitters in Stuart, FL near where I live. I've known Ed the owner for a number of years now and you won't find a nicer more honest representative of Hobie kayaks. The locals here were very pleased he received a hobie dealership and I will buy all future boats from him.

I have been thinking of changing my current Revo to an Outback or PA. Why? I want more of a stand up boat. I do, or would do more stand up fishing and I at least want the option. I have a dragonfly paddleboard now for that and it's an awesome beautiful fishing paddleboard but I will be selling it. Need to get to one boat. haha.

I don't really want to lose much in the way of speed from my Revo so i demoed the outback with the turbo fins. Getting in the boat, it seemed REALLY wide to me compared to the Revo so I'm thinking barge right away. I like all the trays though and the seat position was very comfortable. My butt never got wet the whole ride unlike my Revo that does get wet. I'm 6 feet 220# by the way. Unfortunately for the demo I forgot my GPS but will bring it next time. My impression though was that the turbos where really moving the boat along judging by how fast the river bank was going by me and the wake I was kicking up but the GPS would tell the whole story. If I cruise between 4 and 4.5 I'll be really happy. That's what I do in the revo and depending on tide and wind and distance I have to go can get close to 5 or even well over that on sprints.

The next thing I wanted to do was stand up. There really isn't a flat spot per se but the area in front of the seat is plenty clear, wide, and flat enough and I stood with ease. Looking around, shifting my weight from leg to leg, etc. never made me feel uncomfortable. I know from experience with other boats that casting and catching from this boat standing up is going to be very comfortable and not a problem at all. I really have to say I was pleasantly surprised by this boat. I could really use this in the no motor zone up in cocoa/titusville for reds and blacks, tarpon fishing in my favorite spots where it really helps to stand and deliver a quick accurate cast to a rolling fish, and drifting the flats sight casting. I liked it alot. Shorter than the Revo and won't cut the chop as smoothly, probably not quite as fast, but I can do more with it. I really haven't taken a kayak through the surf to the ocean but would like to do more of that. We get a lot of nice fish here within kayak range of the beach and I want to do more of it. I wonder how the outback would do getting off and on the beach compared to the Revo.

The PA 14 was next. Do I even have to say it's easy to stand in? Of course it is. For me though I have to say I don't think it's for me. Blasphemy I know but I got into kayak fishing because it is easy, fast, relatively inexpensive, no muss no fuss, and the PA just felt like I was leaving that world a little and making things a little harder, more expensive and "less kayak fishing". I know many will disagree with this but it's how it felt to me. It's heavy, big, and expensive. It's driving an Escalade. It performed well and I liked it but just more than I'm looking for. I want to keep things easy and inexpensive. I'll end up fishing more that way and enjoying it more. I remember the first time I went kayak fishing. I want to keep that feeling. I sold my 17' bay boat after I kayak fished for a while. The PA felt like I was edging back into boating. Sorry, it's how I felt. Now the PA 12 might be different and I intend to demo that as well. It wasn't there the other day. Maybe that will change my mind. We'll see.

So the Outback is top of the list right now. I am only looking at mirage boats. I am totally hooked on that. I'll update when I demo the PA 12 and GPS the Outback.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 8:04 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:47 am
Posts: 196
Location: Florida's Treasure Coast.
quest4fish,
I'm the Hobie Team member assigned to SRO and I currently have the store's Pro Angler 12 demo. If you want to give the PA12 a try, give me a call at the number I PM'ed you and we can schedule a meet.

BTW, I agree with you 100% regarding Ed, Hobie made a smart decision going with South River Outfitters.

_________________
Image
~YakAttack Pro Staff ~ RAM Pro Staff ~ Power-Pole Pro Staff ~ Team South River Outfitters ~ Columbia Pro Team~


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:06 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:46 am
Posts: 16
Quote:
I really haven't taken a kayak through the surf to the ocean but would like to do more of that. We get a lot of nice fish here within kayak range of the beach and I want to do more of it. I wonder how the outback would do getting off and on the beach compared to the Revo.


Hi quest4fish.

I am the Organizer for the Kayak Fishing Club of the Palm Beaches and I use the Hobie Outback for most of my fishing and I go out in the Atlantic Ocean. I studied the Hobie Mirage Drive kayaks and decided that I wanted the Revolution a number of years ago and started to save up to buy one when a good and pretty new used Outback appeared for sale at a good price, so I got the late 2006 model Outback. I learned it's idiosyncrasies and really liked it for fishing and after using it for a number of years, in March of 2012, I traded it in for the new 2012 Outback. I believe that both the Outback and the Revolution would have the same problems going in and out of the surf, but the Revolution, being longer and thinner, may handle more like my older model Outback.

The problem with the Outback is the front vertical part of the bow. It is just the opposite of how a surf board works and that vertical part digs into the water and can make coming in through the surf really hazardous unless you can get a lot of weight back in the kayak so that the bow is lifted high off the water. If you are not EXACTLY straight on while going out through the surf it will turn you and, as I and others have found out, can flip you over. I did not have the problem as much in the older hull design, but the new one is much more problematic.

The older model was a bit 'tippy' but had great secondary stability. I could not turn around to see behind me though (I have some arthritis) and the new one is much more stable and I can turn my body and even stand up in it and do things I could not do in the older one. The new hull design is flatter on the water than the old one and that presents new challenges. First, it is so much less 'tippy' with the sides now coming down all the way to the water (the old one has a round bottom all the way front to back and the sides did not touch the water until it tipped a bit (and I weighed 190). In the new one, there is almost no sideways resistance except at the rudder and 12 feet forward, at the vertical part of the bow and that creates a new set of problems, including the inability to run any distance "hands free". I could not understand people who complained that their Outbacks were not hands free (you have to keep your left hand on the steering all the time or you are zig-zaging all over the place) until I got my 2012 model. Now I know. I got the big rudder and it helps some, but tracking is still not very good (understatement). I am trying to invent and make something to help with that now (anybody got a good band saw in my area?). This also makes the new Outback more 'touchy' (and even dangerous) in the surf than the older model, plus it's turning radius is about double that of the older one.

So I can compare the newer Outbacks with the older models and can tell you that there are a lot of things I do not like about the newer models. Bear in mind that there is no such thing as a perfect kayak; they all have good and bad so you have to discover the trade-offs to see what you really want. I am determined to get my 2012 Outback in condition to like it as much as I liked the older model and am working on it. The Outback is not a fast kayak, but it is still really good for fishing.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:58 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:38 pm
Posts: 38
I've had a 2012 outback with the turbo fins for a year now. I did the same test as you with the PA 12 and couldn't justify the need for the PA. With that being said... I'm now desiring the openness and stand-ability of the PA. I can stand in my outback, but never felt comfortable fishing and standing. I'm probably going to sell my outback and get the PA 14.

As for the surf. I primarily fish offshore in the Atlantic. I've put it through the test comparing it to a Tarpon 140. I've never flipped or tipped in my outback. Seated stability is incredible. Peddling out to sea is never an issue since the mirage driver grabs so much water. The only issue is that the nose digs into the wave and a little water gets into the hatch. As far as landing, take it slow and time it right. The width of the kayak keeps it on top of most waves allowing them to pass. Also, I get a 4-4.5 mph cadence with the turbo fins.

You can't go wrong with the outback. But if you plan on frequently standing to fish, then I would get a PA.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:29 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:06 pm
Posts: 71
Depends upon what kind of fishing you're into surely, but I started with an Outback w/turbo fins & sail rudder and that lasted a year. I wasn't at all happy with having my rods in the air as I fish fresh water rivers & reservoirs that have tree lined banks and hated having my expensive rod tips snagging branches or hanging a lure on one while casting. I am also a big guy at 6'5" and 300 lbs, and the seat in the Outback (with a high density foam pad under it) just was not comfortable for a day of fishing. I felt cramped in the Outback and wanted something bigger with more storage and not have my rods sticking up in the air. I moved up to the PA-14 (2012) and love it. It is NOT as maneuverable as the Outback, nor as fast, but it suits my needs perfectly. The big drawback to the PA-14 (IMO) is the need to trailer it as it is heavy and cumbersome to try and get on top of a vehicle - I know guys do it, but I would not attempt it - and I tow my 21' bass boat so it's not a big deal for me to trailer my kayak also.

_________________
2012 PA-14 Dune; 2013 PA-14 Yellow.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 8:00 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:38 pm
Posts: 38
bruce19365 wrote:
Depends upon what kind of fishing you're into surely, but I started with an Outback w/turbo fins & sail rudder and that lasted a year. I wasn't at all happy with having my rods in the air as I fish fresh water rivers & reservoirs that have tree lined banks and hated having my expensive rod tips snagging branches or hanging a lure on one while casting. I am also a big guy at 6'5" and 300 lbs, and the seat in the Outback (with a high density foam pad under it) just was not comfortable for a day of fishing. I felt cramped in the Outback and wanted something bigger with more storage and not have my rods sticking up in the air. I moved up to the PA-14 (2012) and love it. It is NOT as maneuverable as the Outback, nor as fast, but it suits my needs perfectly. The big drawback to the PA-14 (IMO) is the need to trailer it as it is heavy and cumbersome to try and get on top of a vehicle - I know guys do it, but I would not attempt it - and I tow my 21' bass boat so it's not a big deal for me to trailer my kayak also.



You don't think the PA 14 is as fast or faster than the Outback?? I raced a buddy in a PA 12 vs my Outback with turbo fins and we were pretty much tied. He also weighs about 40lbs less than me. Getting to my point, I've been reading that the PA 14 is faster than the PA 12 because of the overall length. I plan on getting a PA 14, but don't want it to feel sluggish.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 9:10 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:06 pm
Posts: 71
No, the PA is not equal to the Outback in speed. You can keep close in a short sprint but "cruising speed" is faster in an Outback for the same effort expended. And we are not talking real "speed" between the two as it's only a difference of about 1 MPH with the Outback, which is not as noticeable in a short sprint as opposed to a cruise of a half mile or more.

As for the concern of "sluggishness" in the PA-14, that is most noticeable when you begin to move because it does not respond immediately to the rudder due to the rudder size and location and it's a longer craft so it needs more room and a few extra seconds to turn around and be underway. You may also experience greater effect from wind and current with the larger PA.

_________________
2012 PA-14 Dune; 2013 PA-14 Yellow.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 2:09 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:29 pm
Posts: 2092
Location: High Point, NC
Before you completely make up your mind, try an Adventure Island. It will give you stand up capability plus way more speed than either of the others you mentioned.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:01 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Sat Jun 15, 2013 12:52 pm
Posts: 9
Wow. Thanks for all the great replies. As an update to my earlier post, I demoed the outback again this time armed with my gps. This outback had the turbo fins but not the sailing rudder. There was a small current from the incoming tide where I was so I did a gps check in both directions and peddled at my normal cruising pace which is a pace I can sustain for a distance. With the tide I was easily able to keep 4.4 - 5.0 pace. Against the same tide I was able to keep a 3.7 - 4.2 pace. As a comparison I was out the other day with my revo with ST fins with my gps and at the same cruising pace I was sustaining 4 - 4.5. I was surprised at these numbers as I expected more of a difference. The outback is shorter and wider and heavier but the turbo fins made up for all that? I would have to peddle it more to get a true feel but still surprising to me. One thing that concerns me a little is that the turbo's take a greater effort to peddle so could I peddle for the same distance as the ST's? Only experience doing it could tell me. The good thing is I can switch out fins if I need to. I would lose speed but oh well.

I am concerned abt photo01a's post re: surf launching. 95% of my fishing is inshore in the indian river but I do want the option to get off the beach on a calm day if I want to. I guess as I go through this process my needs and desires are crystallizing a bit. I want the ability to stand up and sight fish sometimes ( I tested that again and to me the outback is very stable while standing up), I want a mirage drive kayak, I don't want to mess with pontoons of some kind, and I don't want to trailer my kayak. Isn't the outback my only option? I wonder what level of surf is too much for the outback. I wouldn't even consider going if it was much above 1-2 feet. I would just launch on the other side of Hutchinson island in the river.

As for the adventure? that boat just won't work for the type of fishing I'm doing. At least I don't think so.

My dealer couldn't find a 2013 Outback in the color I want (blue) so we agreed I would wait for the 2014 model to come out. That gives me some time to continue mulling it over and also to see what changes Hobie makes to either the Outback or the Revo for 2014. Guess I'm still leaning to the Outback at this point. The PA 12 sounds attractive but I think I would have to trailer it and I've read posts here abt the PA's ability in the surf line too so not sure it has an advantage over the Outback in that department. If I was mostly going off the beach, nobody would talk me out of the Revo, but when I fish the beach I'm usually walking and sight fishing snook or tarpon running the beach. There are days though when I want to launch and get out there so that's why I'm thinking about having that flexibility. I don't fish with anybody who goes off the beach and if I did maybe I would get more hooked on it but for now I don't do it much at all.

All your advice is great and it is really helping me and hopefully others in the same quandary. Thank you.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:57 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:38 pm
Posts: 38
The post you are referring to about the surf is true with any kayak. They can all nose dive. I have had my outback in all types of surf and have never flipped or dug the nose in while landing. I fish 100% of the time offshore from the beach. It can handle just as much of not more surf than most kayaks. Don't let that be a deal breaker.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:03 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Sat Jun 15, 2013 12:52 pm
Posts: 9
Captain Yak wrote:
The post you are referring to about the surf is true with any kayak. They can all nose dive. I have had my outback in all types of surf and have never flipped or dug the nose in while landing. I fish 100% of the time offshore from the beach. It can handle just as much of not more surf than most kayaks. Don't let that be a deal breaker.


Thank you. Good to hear. I appreciate it.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 7:07 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:46 am
Posts: 16
I personally have six kayaks and a canoe (and complete access to many others, including our club kayak) and I can tell you unequivitably that the Hobie kayaks do not surf well but many other kayaks are really good through the surf. I have even considered cutting off the lower front part and plastic welding a new shape. Yes, major surgery, and I will not do that, but I wish I could without messing up the warantee and all.

David Andrews
Organizer, Kayak Fishing Club of the Palm Beaches


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group