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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 7:35 pm 
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Interesting discussion and concept:

http://kfs.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/ ... 9141008492

See Coast Guard report at:

http://www.seriesdrogue.com/


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 7:04 am 
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FYI: I'm a flatwater guy with limited kayak experience but the link is a kayak-adapted gear discussion. The discussion, and websites it includes, make very clear that the series drogues are not drift sock / sea anchor devices and apparently offer cures for the disadvantages of those devices.

Me, I don't know, so I posted for you guys to take a look and comment on what is touted by others (not me) as a potential safety device.

Thanks.


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 Post subject: Series drogue recap
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 5:09 pm 
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Everyone agrees good swimming skill, paddling skills, experience in the surf, and sound judgments are indispensable tools for encountering the surf. The question is whether a series drogue should have any role in the prudent kayaker’s safety gear or regular equipment, in the surf or otherwise. Do they have, for example, application as an aid to the inexperienced, injured, or exhausted paddler?

Stobbo from New Zealand on KFS http://kfs.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/ ... 9141008492 posts about his positive research, experience, and testing plus gives online references to a commercial site www.seriesdrogue.com and email address to the vendor bryan@seriesdrogue with experience selling, using, and a willingness to adapt the concept for kayaks and other small boats.

AlohaDan from Hawaii on KFS (and the Hobie site) is intrigued buys from Bryan Glover and assembles what he hopes is a kayak-appropriate series drogue to test and shares pictures of his rig.

Stobbo on KFS explains why series drogues avoid the negative aspects of sea anchor / drift socks.

MarkCz on KFS shares a second commercial source for series drogues: http://www.jordanseriesdrogue.com/D_4_m1.htm

Swellrider from Eureka [upper northern California] on NorCal reports using the series drogue effectively as a last resort to bring in seasick or injured paddlers through the surf at La Jolla [southern California] when he worked there as a guide but cautions loose rope in surf is a recipe for disaster http://www.norcalkayakanglers.com/bb/in ... pic=6765.0 reply 6
.
Many think surf and series drogues make no sense, and pose a foolish and unacceptable danger that should deter anyone from using them. Maybe they are right, though the real world evidence on actual use of series drogues posted so far is to the contrary.

Some may already be sold on the series drogue without reservation, that they guarantee an end to endos and being maytagged. Maybe they are right, but there is not enough evidence posted so far to warrant this conclusion and I have seen no posts that hold this point of view.

Some, including me, see the thread of potential and promise in the real world evidence posted so far, maintain curiosity about the series drogue idea, and want to see what careful, safety-minded real world tests show. What is the reasoned position for not finding out?


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 Post subject: Surf video
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 9:48 pm 
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Iconn4 on KFS http://kfs.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/ ... 4091078913
posted:

“just saw this in the Not Yakfishing forum and thought it might better explain why I'm against having a lot of loose rope hanging around.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvOWnfxtaOo “

My reply:

Fabulous video! And a great addition to this discussion.

I am an inland flatwater guy with almost no surfing background, so please forgive the generic terminology I use trying to grapple with this stuff. And please help pull apart and correct my tentative analysis, and answer the questions I pose if you have relevant experience.

Remember this is all primarily in the context of an exhausted, injured, or inexperienced kayaker faced with a surf entry challenge. Strong, experienced surf-savvy folks may or may not have any benefit from a series drogue - that's another question.

The way the series drogue is supposed to work, as I understand it, is for the rope to be down in the water column acting to keep the boat stern first into the waves while allowing the boat to keep forward way that can be increased by paddling / pedaling or decreased by not paddling / pedaling. You can still back paddle.

For kayaks the rope itself would be the "weight" keeping the individual drogue "cones" down in the water column, there is not anchor or other weight at the end of the rope.

So, if it works as advertised (and the point is to find out if it does, not to claim that it does) there would be:

(1) No loose rope (it would be below the waves acting as a stabilizing force), and,

(2) It would prevent the boat from being either:

(a) Pushed sideways to the waves and being rolled / maytagged (this is what was experienced by the Coast Guard in open ocean tests and by Stobbo and swellrider in the surf),or,

(b) Plunging over a wave crest and diving into a trough (submarining) or the beach (going endo).

If the open surf boats coming in the video coming in had been able to keep their sterns square to the waves, but mis-timed their approach, it does look like they might have filled with water as the series drogue would have let wave crests go past (effectively "pulling" them the into breaking wave crests). A relatively well-sealed kayak would hopefully better survive this problem.

I can't quite figure out how a boat with its stern kept square to the waves would act once the bow hits the sand. At first the series drogue, if it works as advertised (and the point is to find out if it does) would continue to stabilize the boat. But:

1. Because the series drogue is not a sea anchor or drift shoot, would it continue to come in with the waves?

2. If it continued to come in after the bow hit the beach, would it become the dreaded loose rope, life-threatening, saltwater anaconda, or by that point be irrelevant to safety?

3. Would the backwash of spent waves keep it active as a stabilizer, preventing it from coming in further? That is, would it effectively "stop" until those in the boat pulled it up the beach and out of the surf zone?

Going to be interesting to find out from the guys out there testing it.


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 Post subject: Bump
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 7:22 am 
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AlohaDan just posted a report of kayak surf landing aided by a small series drogue that he got from Bryan Glover of www.seriesdrogue.com, in a new reply in this thread:

http://kfs.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/ ... 7881049913

AD adds his thoughts:

“My own gut feeling is that the max surf with this method would occur with wave heights that can sweep you out of the yak as it passes by with the drogue holding you steady. You eliminate the broach, but sufficient wave height can produce other problems.

Speaking of which where can one find a suitable beach for doing such testing?â€


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 9:43 pm 
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Latest report from the field:

http://kfs.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/ ... 008492/p/2


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 4:15 am 
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Been busy, but also thinking about the series drogue investigation from time to time.

First, thanks again Stobbo for great reporting on real world experimentation with this technology. Your January 16, 2007 post was a substantial contribution toward understanding series drogue potential - and limits.

Am I correct that in three trips in through smaller surf you were “upsetâ€


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