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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:26 pm 
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I have a question and maybe i could get a little edumacation. Allen maybe you could help or anyone on the forum. like everyone i got the fever bad and i am in the hunt for large ocean pelagics. I am talking about record kayak fish. I am amazed at how fast kayak fishing has evolved in the last few years. I went on line to search for a site that had a list of complete and accurate kayak fishing records. I didn't find much but came across this,

http://forum.kayak4fish.com/viewtopic.p ... 39e5b0a899

I was wondering is there a list or a site dedicated to the record keeping of fish caught from a kayak? since i cant find a site like this i have another question and i would appreciate everyones feed back and take on this. if there is such a list or site or someone were to develop one, should all kayak catches be recorded as one list or should they be divided into separate categories? what i am getting at is should there be different records kept for people who paddle for there prey versus people who mother boat and power up for there prey? I like to fish my Hobie AI which has a big sail. should there be a different class for people who sail a kayak for there prey. I have to give mad props for the guys that paddle to there prey and catch it, fight it, land it and then paddle in. there are some serious paddling machines out there. what are your thought on how kayak records should be kept and listed. mahalo to everyone. Boogie-D

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 4:40 pm 
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boogie
Saw your post on La Jolla Kayak fishing. Lots of discussion elsewhere.
Go:

http://kfs.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/ ... 2711057764

For a lengthy discussion.

IMHO there are too many small craft with kayak like classifications or similar characteristics to do what your proposing.

I believe only :

1. That the fish must be hooked up on the craft in question.

2. The fish landed or release by the same craft. Landed means you have the leader as with some bigger fish like Marlin you may just want to snip it. I don't see any problem with two yaks getting the fish onto one yak once you have it.

3. No motorized craft.

Otherwise there are too many potental classifications. Which is probably why the IGFA doesn't care what kind of craft you are on.

Jim is a nice guy. But in his case going after the AI and trying to equate it with a mother ship seems like an attempt to protect his own business using pangas.

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 Post subject: right on dan
PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 9:24 pm 
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I am glad some one from the hobie team responded. i looked at some of your post dan and i have to laugh a jim. he is so into discrediting the hobie ai. i like what you said. lets get him in there for 5 hours. and the extra difficulties in landing on the AI. i can only see one class the pure class. that means paddle out from beach, hook and land unassisted, paddle backin to beach.
you can not put mothership records in with that class. if your going to have mothership records. then why not sailing records. sailing a kayak is much more of a pure form than any kind of mother ship. you are on your own
I am sure this debate will live on and if hobie was smart they would be the first to catagorize the fishing records and have an official site since they created the most diverse kayak ever.
merry christams and happy new year dan. aloha Boogie-D

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 2:40 pm 
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Would you expect anything less from someone sponsored by some company other then Hobie ?

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 6:50 pm 
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I think Jim uses his mothership when he waters his lawn. :lol: :lol: :lol:


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 Post subject: i need some voting power
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 1:08 pm 
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could you all check this site and maybe do a vote jim sammons seems to think mothershipping and sail kyaks are the same. aloha b-d


http://forum.kayak4fish.com/viewtopic.php?t=9916

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:31 pm 
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I'll try, but from his ignoring my comments on KFS the guy has absolutely no understanding of the work that goes into use of an AI. Or other sailing kayaks for that matter.

He equates sailing with lounging on the deck of a power boat enroute to a fishing spot.

Work coming back? Never! Hell have cocktail or two.

Wind worldwide is always just 9.5 knots and steady all day. Blows just right enroute to fishing grounds so your on a broad reach. Then magically changes directions for the trip home.

He ought to try paddling, or pedaling when it dies out.

Too much wind? Ramp up the engine and get out of there. He ought to try sailing in this stuff!

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Nor does he acknowledge sailing yaks don't travel in a straight line, and have to travel further. Beat to windward Mr. Hornblower!

Wonder if his pangas tack? Probably doesn't know the meaning of the word.

Nor does he consider their speed advantage.

Note the above for the AI also equates into longer trips, with less fishing time than mothership yaks .

Nor does he acknowledge the height advantage of one of his pangas. The eyes of it's captain seeing birds, bait schools, and weather.

Sure when the wind is blowing right the AI is normally (can be) faster than a fast paddling kayak. Most of the time each yak's advantages cancel each other out under different weather conditions. That's not true with mother ship kayaks. They have all advantages, and then some.

ON KFS Jim is pretty clever in his arguments by the way. Listing some of the advantages an AI has in certain weather conditions over a straight paddle yak, and then trying to equate them to a panga.

Then there are his comments like AI ama stability. Ludicrous as he ignores the number of yaks equipped with same (there aren't all those commercial kits out there for nothing), but choose not to sail. How does he even begin to relate stuff like this to an AI being equivalent to a mother ship?

There is just no comparison. The mothership has it all.

Biggest advantage of an AI IMHO is safety. Using a sail to bail you out when conditions turn sour and your caught out. A case could also be made for a straight kayak comparison that the AI can get up to lure speed. Not so sure here on this point as bait has proven very productive, and am now getting into the live stuff which is yak speed tolling.

Jim seems like a nice guy, and is pretty smart. So one really wonders why he is trying to push this button.

If he wants too, put in a sailing yak record. Bt it will just support my earlier stand that there are too many yak classifications . Stick with IGFA.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 3:25 pm 
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Thanks for your input dan. i know you, if any one knows, how difficult kayak sailing can be. it just isnt some piece of pie. i have trolled fast speeds in the AI. at lure speed I have caught some stuff on artificial. about a month ago caught and released a 25 pound ulua trolling a rappala. however this speed advantage comes with a lot of challenges. there really just is no comparison to mother ship kayak angling and sail kayak angling. thanks for the support dan.

iam not really that into the records thing as i dont really have any. a lot of people want to see kayak records so the disscussion is how they should be kept. i found it very strange that all the record were in one class. that a guys who uses a boat could have a record that would beat a guy that paddled.

i respect all the stlyes. i paddle a lot when its calm. i sail when its windy and some day i will try mother shipping. I just think its odd to keep the records all in the same class. i here you dan about the iga, the only records that count. I am amazed a what reggie did. isnt that a record fish in the kayak world. how do you compare what he did too mother shipping. what if you caught that fish should you be compared to a guy who caught a fish that size but off a mother ship or to reggie a paddle guy.

so if everyone wants records so bad it just seems fair that there be three class. there only seem to be three variations of kayak fishing

1) "pure" paddle or peddle only. to and from beach. catch considered like iga when an individual touches leader. I think help after touching leader from fellow angler would be ok to subdue fish and boat fish. kind of like you and reggie. in this division amas and aks are permitted.

2) "sail" like the above class however sails are used. akas and amas permitted. help from fellow anglers only after leader has been touched to help subdue and land fish.

3) "motorized" this would include any kayak angling done with the assistance of a motor. this would mean motherships and trolling motors. help permitted after touching of leader to help subdue and land the fish.

if everyone wants kayak records this would seem to be the most fair and simple. however this is just my opinion. I think what kayak anglers do is unique and would like to see people properly acknowledged for there incredible feats. not just lumped together in one big group. this is just my opinion again.

Thanks for your input dan. your comment were very encouraging. i hope to sail with you some day and do some fishing. mahalo Boogie-D

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:53 pm 
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Please see my response on this other thread
http://www.hobiecat.com/community/viewtopic.php?t=8566

No I don't use a mothership to water my lawn, we have drought in CA I don't water my lawn at all.

For the record I use a mother ship about 1% of the time. I seriously question if any of you has as many miles or hours paddling a kayak as I do.
Please do not turn this into personal attacks or even a personal issue, because that is not the case with me at all.
If you read the response in the other thread maybe you will better understand what we had intended for the records. There has never been in any forum any discrediting or defamation of any Hobie products including the AI. I think Hobie has some of the most inovative products on the market and Hobie has been one of the biggest supporters of kayak fishing out there.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:06 pm 
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No personal attack meant.

I've stated elsewhere you are probably a nice guy, albiet maybe lacking in sail experience.

Lucky you qualified your paddling "in a kayak" as I would have to challenge you over a few beers on your hours of paddling versus mine.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:03 pm 
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jim states he only uses a mother ship 1 percent of the time. that isnt very much. however he has created a class to meet that 1 percent. maybe the 1 pecent should just have there own catagory for those 1 percent. i think maybe the percentage of sailors may be higher. i had a long talk with steve hausser on the big isle. i really respect his take on things. he suggested something to me i would like to share. we got into the long discussion of records. he came up with this suggestion.

1) traditional: the eskimo freaks
2) traditional modified: for everything else except motors
3) unlimmited: go crazy with mother shipping get a moku jet yak.

any way you look at i really believe there should be three classes i dont see why jim you want to dispute this so much. your loosing at the poles on your site. is one more class that difficult to add. i think this is a simple solutiton that will keep the magority happy.

a funny thing to me is all the definiton of kayak and eskimo. my personal view is they are natives using what they used. what about local natives world wide who used such similar craft and why limit our sport to eskimos. so this is what eskimos used. what did the balinease use what did tahitians use what did hawaiians use what about the chumash. one thing i do know is they didnt have any help from motors so to put us sailing folk in with mother shipping is just plain wrong sorry.

we are assisted by sailing yes. we are natural assisted just like other native craft all over the world. we are not assisted by a motor in any way. you may not call the wind pure but what do you call one of the oldest forms of travel known to man. sailing is not eskimo does that mean us sailors have to be stuck with motors.

take aloha dans story for instance he went on a sail to a bouy 12 miles out. he had a freind with a boat keep an eye on him. dan ran out of wind had to peddle his ass off and never reached the goal of the buoy. however the freind on the boat did make the buoy and found a floater full of mahi. now just suppose jim was on that boat and made the bouy and floater and caught a big mahi. i dont see how you can compare the two in the catagory of assisted, when one has obviouys advantage over the other.

I am not trying to put anyone down just recognize people accomplishments. i really want to see an end to this records discussion and the solutions found. aloha Boogie-D

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:56 am 
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It seems like you're a bit overly concerned about this kayak records business. Jim is trying to create a standard where none exists and isn't likely to become "official" with the IGFA. That being the case I support his efforts and will submit or not submit my catches based on his guidelines. If the situation were that my "record" didn't meet his criteria I'd create my own website of kayak records so that my ego could be properly stroked. :D

In the end Steamroll is right - the only record that really matters is IGFA.

How many miles are you covering in a day when you fish under sail? If it's less than 15 then I'd say you aren't out of paddle/pedal range and if you're chasing these kinds of records then work to fish within the same constraints the rest of the kayak community is using.


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 Post subject: I dont have record
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:08 pm 
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i support what jim has done and thank him for efforts.

dude i dont have any records. I just didnt understand why all the record were in one class.

I hope jims site becomes the accepted site for kayak anglers records and it does become more official with more people around the world posting there record catches. this sport is growing quickly and there are definatley three types of kayak angling going on and i think jim nailed it down pretty good in his discription.

i incourage any one who catches a record fish to post it there because i dont have any and i would like to see what others are doing and what i would like to accomplish someday.

I am not really into records i thought it strange how a paddle guys record was kept with a mother ship records. i have nothing to beat my chest to but if people will post there record catches than mayabe i will have something to beat or at least make the day a little more fun and exciting.

sorry to anyone if they misunderstood my intentions of trying to figure out the fairest way to keep records. i think jim has done an excellent job he was patient and listened to the kayak community. my hat off to him

now go post some record fish and let me see whats out there and what others are doing and if i have a chance. lets have some fun with this


here is the link to the best attempt on the net to catgorize and keep track of kayak records please if you catch something big post it here.

http://forum.kayak4fish.com/index.php?s ... 8578b6dd5b

Aloha Boogie-D

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