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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:14 pm 
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I had a ball sailing my Oasis Tandem in high winds...some scary moments but stayed dry and had fun.. Sidekick outrigger definitely not necessary.

NOW....I'd like to try my Adventure, which is much narrower and wobbly side-to-side. Can anybody share specific experiences with the Adventure kayak (not the island! version).

I am inclined to get the Hobie Sidekick but I am kinda turned off by the fact hat is inflatable. Also, it doesn't look very sleek/Hydro-dynamic, does it glide well when it hits the water??

Thoughts on sailing the narrow Adventure and the need for outrigger? Alternative brands?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:57 pm 
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The Side Kick is for stability... not performance. It does drag when in contact with the water. You can set them high, so they only come in contact with the water when you heel over more.

Keep the mainsheet in your hand. Lots of fun!

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:18 pm 
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tks Matt!

I am wondering if there are any folks out there sailing the Adventure sans outrigger (with the smaller kit sail of course!)


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:21 pm 
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Absolutely! We had sail kits long before we had the Side Kick. I would sail without the Side Kick for sure. Just be sure you can sheet out quickly :)

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:27 pm 
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Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
DavieFL:
Check out what Stringy does to get to work on this post viewtopic.php?f=32&t=19322, just what you want to do I think.

Like Matt says, the side kicks are probably your best bet, but if you want to try something different read on.

We have been sailing Kayaks for several years now (our favorite thing to do), we started with an Oasis, and a Revolution, had lots of fun. If you go to the forum thread The ultimate Tandem Island (hydrofoils,spinnaker,jib,etc) viewtopic.php?f=69&t=33720
You will see about halfway thru the post, a keel weight setup I put onto the boats to make them a little more fun and safer to sail (basically you can't tip over with them in). The weight basically does the same as sidekicks, we also had jibs and spinnakers rigged on the Oasis and the Revo. The keel weights do add a little drag, it's pretty close to what you would get from sidekicks.
If you make the keel weight shaped like a torpedo around 25-35 lbs and suspend it under the boat with spectra line, it all works great. It's easily raised up for shallow water, launching, and beaching. Actually with the torpedo shape we don't do anything special when beaching, it's a hunk of lead, you can't hurt it. The easiest way to make is just go to any dive shop and buy 25 lbs of weight belt weights (the kind made from lead pellets in a mesh bag). Then take a 24 inch piece of 2 inch PVC tubing and just fill it up with the shot. Glue two end caps on the ends and your good to go. If you want to get fancy shape a bull nose in the front and a point on the back, but they won't improve the drag a whole lot. Tie the spectra around the tubing near each end with cinch knots. The end caps prevent the spectra from coming off. The spectra (same line used on the rudder lines, available from Hobie for $.29 /ft) is good to almost 500 lbs so it will never break. 24 inches of 2 inch PVC pipe is good for 25 lbs (good for revo), Oasis would need 30 to 36 inches length (ie.. 33-40 lbs)). A 36 inch long 2 inch PVC pipe is around 40 lbs (good for Adventure). The PVC pipe is cheap under $5.00. But the lead will be about $75 bucks for 25 lbs. Easiest way is to just pour the desired weight into a longer than needed tube with one cap already glued on, then just saw it off and glue the other cap on (easier since you are buying the lead by weight). If you decide to change it adding more weight later, just get a new pipe and cut the old pipe open and re-pour the lead plus the additional lead into the new tube.
I sailed our Oasis with the 25 lb keel weight for several years, but wished I had 35 lbs. The Revo worked great with just 25 lbs (impossible to tip the boat over). My TI has 50 lbs and is impossible to tip over without the sail open, but when you open that huge 90 sq ft sail you can still tip in anything but really light winds without the AMA's, I will probably add another 25 lbs (probably a second torpedo type keel weight) to the TI so I can sail without the AMA's in regular conditions around here.
I mostly just use the swinging keel weight (if you wanted to get really fancy) on the TI in heavy sea conditions (20-30 mph winds and 3 ft plus seas), the rest of the time I just leave it in the car. I was out last weekend with the 50 lb swinging keel and AMA's on my TI in 22-25mph winds with 30mph plus gusts sailing, it was actually fun.
Good luck and have fun
Bob


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:57 pm 
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tks fusioneng.

This weighted torpedo keel sounds interesting!!!

i was thinking about the Daggerboard but his sounds good too!

Thank you!!


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:30 pm 
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Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
DavieFL:
If you have an Adventure, then I would definately invest in the daggerboard. The mirage pedals pointed down also helps (I think you mentioned you had the mirage drive out). But the daggerboard will for sure do a better job when pointing into the wind. On the Oasis and Revo we also added the larger sailing rudders, which also helps. The big turbo fins also make a huge difference.
Good luck
Bob


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:01 pm 
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Several members here sail their Adventure without the Sidekick. In addition to Stringy, Stobbo has several posts about Adventure sailing. I think we all find it challenging and lots of fun! Here are a couple of locals with their Adventures:
Image

Image
8)


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:59 pm 
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Location: Auckland NZ
Sail my Adventure all the time (rarely sail my Adventure Island because sailing a "yacht" is much more challenging than sailing a trimaran).

The Adventure is much the best sailer of the kayaks. Get the daggerboard, larger rudder and some blocks for the sheet lead and you are off. A useful addition is roller furling - I have an adapter for the small sail on my AI hull which makes the small sail furlable & works well and there lare lots of posts about roller furler mods for the 'standard' mast base in the A hull... a useful addition but not essential. Also a "boombatten" is good for downwind sailing - again lotsa posts about this mod - cheap easy effective - it stops the sail opening & shutting & making the boat lurch from side to side when sailing ~dead downwind.

If you want to go for it you can run a jib which I do. You need to think through the design carefully & "stay" the mast but once you have a good set up it adds a huge amount of extra performance in light winds and IMHO it is a worthwhile modification if you consistently have light winds to sail in as I do The mods can be achieved without a single drill hole in your P&J. Bear in mind that extra canvas aloft comes at increased risk of a capsize and with significantly more complex rigging - but it is all good clean fun.

I am not a fan of outriggers - I have an AI but much prefer the feeling of a boat that heels to the wind - so unless there is a serious risk of you not being able to get back on board if you capsize I would recommend trying the A without stabilisers to begin with... You will need to learn to sail conservatively, especially in top-end-marginal conditions, but my $0.02 is that you will learn a lot more about how your boat works and have a more challenging and interesting sailing experience - and if you do this you will find that they are not half as tippy as some people seem to think they are (sure they are tippy - but I have only been dunked by the wind on 4 occasions in at least as many years of regular sailing).

I can't really relate how much enjoyment I have had from sailing my Hobie Adventure (or AI hull) kayak. I have 2 other sailboats to choose from - both exceptional in their own way - plus the option of the AI, but the one I keep coming back to, to the almost total exclusion of the others is the A (in fact I have to make myself take the other boats out once a year and every time I am out in them I wish I was on my kayak, especially when I have to do all the messing about with trailers, parking, hitching, warrants, tyres, lights, engines, setting up, launching, taking down, washing down, maintenance, storing etc etc ...do you get my drift ?!).

Go for it & you'll have a blast !!!!!!!!!! :D


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:21 am 
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tks stobbo!

I had a blast on my Oasis tandem in relatively high winds so I am really excited to give the Adventure a go this weekend. I got the daggerboard and I already have the PVC furler (a must)

I don't have the blocks but I installed those self locking cleats (those 2 springed barrel thingies)

Lastly, I noticed the stock sheet that comes w/ the small sail is not long enough to loop all the way to stern and back to hands but I think i can just bring the my back pulley a bit forward using another section of line.

Will let you know how I fare.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 12:47 pm 
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Location: Auckland NZ
For "Blocks" read "pulleys" - in other words if you are running the sheet through "pulleys" to reduce friction where the sheet turns back on itself then you may already have what you need. I have 2 in my setup: one attached to the rear padeye - the sheet comes from the sail through that block and then runs forward at deck level to the cockpit; the second is at the front RHS of the cockpit attached to a standard boat fitting (tied onto a cleat or padeye or some other fitting - can't quite remember what it is attached to without looking but I remember that there is a convenient fitting somewhere in that area of the cockpit) - the sheet comes forwards at deck level, past the helmsman to the forward area of the cockpit, through the block & back to the helmsman's hand. That way to sheet IN you pull back and to sheet OUT you let go/push the rope forwards; this seemed more logical & easier to me than "pushing forwards" to sheet in which is how it works if you just pick up the sheet as it comes forwards from the stern. Also it is easier to avoid losing the sheet because you can tie a stopper knot in the end so that it won't disappear through the forward block and the sheet is then always to hand in the cockpit - if you don't have that forward block (and a knot in the end of the sheet) then if the end of the sheet finds its way overboard you will have the devil's own job to get it back into your hands and, if it runs out of the rear block, unless you have a mate with you, you won't be able to rethread it & get sailing again without beaching or getting wet.

The stock sheet is rather too short as I remember it: it definitely won't allow you to run the sheet forward and then back to your hand. However the loads are so small that you don't need any sort of fancy low-stretch rope or anything like that - as long as it is nice and soft and thin enough to run easily through your blocks pretty much anything will do - go & see what Tim the Toolman at the local hardware store has to offer.

BTW don't forget to take and use your drive slot plug: the sailing performance improves noticeably if you pull the drive and replace it with the plug; just don't forget to tie the drive securely to the boat each time you do this - if you capsize you don't want to lose it and IT WILL NOT FLOAT. I have supplemented the standard plastic hook & bungee affair that is provided in the cockpit with a length of strong cord tied to a rear padeye and a stainless steel snap hook SPECIFICALLY to clip my drive to when I am sailing without it.

Finally, a short length of cassette tape (remember cassettes ?!) is an excellent wind direction indicator at the top of the mast - just find a way to attach it to the webbing at the top of the sail and you will have an easy and cheap way of telling where the wind is coming from. N.B. don't try tying a CD or an MP3 up there - trust me it just won't work the same ! (so much for progress) :lol:

Hope this helps.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 1:34 pm 
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tks man

will think about a longer line and a 2nd pulley to invert the direction of the pull.

yes! i am old enough to know what a cassette is...good idea.

I thought the mirage drive helped stability...but you're saying the daggerboard is enough? I will try to remove and plug the well.

I am old enough to know what a cassette is...not sure i will find one around the house tho...neat idea nonetheless!

tks!


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 8:46 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:04 pm
Posts: 615
Location: Hawaii, Big Island
For what happens when you overdrive the small sail and sidekick go:

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=6909

The fifth post down shows some of the weather I was fighting.

I think you could reinforce the sidekick joints with some slip over pieces of PVC,

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 12:44 pm 
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went out today on the Adventure and it worked out great. Winds were not huge, and the daggerboard seemed to do the trick as far as stability. I will pass on the Sidekicks.

I dont think I broke 5mph per my GPS, but good fun nonetheless.

tks everybody for their support!


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 7:38 pm 
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Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
Congrats on your first sail with the DB! 8)
With a decent wind 5-6mph would probably be a good average speed to aim for.
You will hit higher speeds but won't be able to maintain them. When the wind gets up so does the wave chop and that tends to slow you down (at least where I live). I'm very happy if I'm averaging 5 -6 mph with the occasional speed burst of 7mph. :)


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