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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:04 am 
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Was out in 15mph winds and noticed the yak wanted to head up wind even when the sailing rudder was full over the opposite way. Tried sheeting in and out and no discernible difference. I'm a very experienced sailor in big and small sailboats and this experience was annoying. The only way I could turn away from the wind was to pedal real fast for a few seconds. Is this a typical sailing characteristic for an Oasis or was I just pushing it too much in that high of a wind?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:17 am 
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The sail kit is really maxed out on any kayak at around 10-12 mph winds - I've attached a copy of the instructions for your review:

http://static.hobiecat.com/digital_asse ... ailKit.pdf

"Optimum wind
strength is between 4 to 10 MPH. As the
wind speeds exceed optimal range, the
kayak will become more difficult to
control. When there is too much wind,
take the sail down, roll it up, and stow it
on the right side of the cockpit."

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:35 am 
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Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
phillyg:
We have a lot of kayak sailing experience on Hobie kayaks, I used to sail our Oasis all the time out in the gulf. I found out a couple things that really help kayak sailing in heavier conditions.
First there have been many threads showing how to make a simple rotofurler out of PVC pipe in this forum, I recommend making one, in heavier winds it better to furl the sail some so you can maintain control of the boat.
Also the more ballast you have the better, When sailing solo on an Oasis, alot of us put extra weight in the boat, it helps.
For my Oasis, and Revo I made up lead filled pipes from 2 inch PVC tubing, I think 2inch tubing 3 ft long filled with lead would be around 40 lbs, which is enough for an AI or my Tandem Island, so I'm guessing 25 -30 lbs would be more than sufficient for an Oasis. What I did is go to a scuba diving shop and buy the little sacks of weight belt lead beads (about $3.00 to $4.00 per lb), then pour them into the PVC pipe, then glue the caps on each end. I would then wrap Spectra string (rudder line string (I think it's like 300 lbs test)) around each end then tie into a cinch knot. I would then run the spectra up through the mirage drive openings, one in front and one in the back mirage hole, so the weight suspends about a foot below the boat. This makes the Oasis completely impossible to tip over (like a mono hull sailboat). I don't worry about the weight dragging the bottom when beaching, it gets out of the way, and is actually pretty durable. The only concern is when you are in sea grass it tends to gather just like it does around the rudder and mirage drives.

On our old style Oasis Hobie we had the optional bigger sailing rudder that you could add to the boat for sailing, check with your dealer.
Bottom line in 15 mph winds and wave, you will flip from time to time, make sure you are practiced at righting in rough conditions, dress accordingly (wet suit, drysuit,etc), and never go out alone in those conditions (just common sense). I've seen quite a few people adding the Hobie inflatable AMA's to their kayaks, and hear they work quite well for sailing if you don't want to add the keel weights.
Oh one more thing, one set of your mirage pedals pointed straight down is your daggerboard (the rear pedals down seem to work best for steering).
I tend to pedal lightly 100% of the time when sailing (even on my Tandem Island), gives you better control.
Hope this helps
Bob


Last edited by fusioneng on Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 11:07 am 
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fusioneng wrote:
Also the more ballast you have the better, When sailing solo on an Oasis, alot of us put extra weight in the boat, it helps.
For my Oasis, and Revo I made up lead filled pipes from 2 inch PVC tubing


Some of us use old dry bags and fill them with water to create some extra ballast. That saves you from carrying the extra weight around when you don't need it.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:22 pm 
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Location: Auckland NZ
In strong winds with a lot of ballast on board (i.e. 2 people) and/or a lot of counterbalancing to counteract the force of the wind in the sail the Hobie mast will deform and the sail completely lose shape.

And strong wind in an overpowered sail can overcome the ability of the rudder to hold the boat on a course. The usual design characteristics for a sailboat are that when the boat is overpowered it will round up into the wind.

The only real answers are:

1.bigger rudder blade/more lateral resistance
2.less wind
3.smaller sail
4.(depends) more rigid foil section in sail.

1,2,3 already covered.

You should find that implementing a system of stays to support the mast and stop the sail shape deforming will improve your sailing experience and pointing ability, especially in stronger wind strengths and/or when you are asking the sail to push more weight along (and this is definitely what you are doing when sailing the tandems 2-up - twice the payload of the same sail on a solo yak!).

Stays can be rigged up very cheaply with thin spectra line and a few bits and pieces of micro-chandlery albeit at the expense of a bit of additional rigging complexity; to my mind they would be a pretty good customisation for someone who wants to get the most out of the Hobie mast and sail on a loaded up tandem - certainly work wonders for sail shape on my Adventure and they allow me to add a jib too.

Another thing worth consideration is to add another mast and sail & make your tandem into a schooner - this would effectively halve the load in each sail and on each mast and push you along much faster. It has been done quite effectively and if done nicely makes an interesting- and elegant-looking boat which I bet is a load of fun to sail well. Do a search on these forums & see what you can turn up - the mod was well-enough documented by the creators.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:04 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
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Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
Phillyg:
Stobbo is correct about adding stays to the mast because the mast can flex pretty easily. I know on my Oasis, I had a combination jib/spinnaker as well as stays to try and get as much as I could out of the boat. In later designs I had a separate furling jib, and a deployable spinnaker that I put out from a halyard and sail bag (that snuffer sock shown in the picture didn't work so good). Of course with all that sail you pretty much had to use the keel weights I discribed earlier (the one in the picture is an older design). You almost have to have a rotofurler as well.
Here is a pic of my old Oasis from 2007, I had a lot of really fun times with that boat. My wife had her own Revolution that was rigged similar. We would always go out sailing together (me in the Oasis, and her in the Revo) very seldom did we go out sailing tandem (she always wanted her own boat). Though we ofton did long river excursions tandem (without the sails).
Hope this helps.
Bob

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:20 am 
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Beyond simply being over-powered...

Rounding up is pretty typical in sailing gusty / windy conditions on any kind of sailboat.

You need headway to make a rudder effective. Regardless of the rudder size.

Best solution (as well as starting with a reefed / reduced sail area) here is to pedal (hard) to get momentum and steer down a bit, then sheet the sail in a little. You can also do it with minimal pedaling by heading down slightly while sheeting in lightly using the sail to generate forward speed before adding more sheet tension.

Once you round up... it is very hard to get moving again without simply sheeting out... pedaling to get steerage, turning down wind a little before sheeting in again.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:36 pm 
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Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
phillyg :
As Matt points out quite well the whole advantage of Hobie kayak sailing is in the Mirage drive system. By strategically pedaling you should be able to keep your forward momentum up without rounding too bad. Once you get the hang of it you will never blow another tack or round up and stall. You will discover that you can point closer to the wind if you pedal lightly while sailing (very little effort is required). The best feature of the mirage boats is there are seldom any days you can't go out. If it gets too windy or gusty, just take the sail down and pedal. If the wind dies, no problem it's still easy to get home. If you have ever had to paddle a sunfish across a lake with your hands in no wind you will appreciate the mirage drive ( I know I do).
Also keep in mind that the boat is a kayak first, adding the sail package just adds to the versatility and range of the kayak but it doesn't turn the boat into a sunfish or laser. You will find you can do way more with these boats and use them for many more things than I could ever could use my old sunfish for, you will get much more use out of the Hobie.
Oh one other pointer I wanted to give you is, it's probably not a good idea to cleat your sail control line while sailing (obviously I learned this the hard way). I now always keep mine loosly in my hand so if a sudden gust comes up (they always do), you can release and keep from capsizing. And don't forget to tie a knot to the end of your sail control line (called the bitter end) to keep the sail control line from coming completely out if you do happen to let go of it (you will get slapped silly by the lines flailing around LOL).
Even though I've done it, I'm not recommending you start adding a bunch of extra sails and stays and stuff to your Oasis (been there done that), though the Hobie sidekick AMA system is a very nice add-on if you plan to sail in heavier water. My opinion is you will get much more use (and fun) just keeping it simple, and learning to exploit the fantastic mirage drive system to your advantage. And just have fun with your Oasis. Though I am still recommending a roto furler (just a couple buck worth of PVC and a little time to make it).
Here is a video showing one design

Good luck and have fun
Bob


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 6:47 pm 
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Location: Auckland NZ
if you don't want to pedal a good technique for getting the boat's head through the eye of the wind and onto the new tack is to push one pedal forwards so that the fins lie up under the hull - in the tandem the front fins should be up and the rear fins should be down as you tack. Then, as soon as the wind comes onto the other side of the sail sheet in hard (or even backwind the sail completely by using one hand to pull it across your body) while maintaining full rudder onto the new tack... before opening the sail out as the boat comes around and can be settled onto its new point of sail.

What this does is a)reduce the lateral resistance of the fins in the water at the front of the boat (thus allowing the bow to move sideways more easily than the stern) and b) increase the lateral pressure of the sail on the boat (to apply more lateral force on the boat to bring it onto the new tack.

Using this technique on the tandem you should find that the boat tacks a bit more easily especially if you go into the tack a bit too slow to carry way through the turn. It definitely works on either the tandems or on an Adventure and I am sure the effect will be the same on the other singles.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:02 am 
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Thank you all for the quick responses. I figured I was overpowering the yak and you confirmed it. I think I will add roller furling and leave it at that, and just enjoy the ride. We're in Key West and were just getting ready to head out but the winds kicked up to over 12mph so we'll wait for a calmer day. Our daughter at home just sent a photo from outside the house, about 11" of snow, so we're still happy to be here LOL.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:02 am 
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Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
phillyg:
Key West is beautiful, we try to get down there once a month or so (not as often in the winter). I usually launch my TI at the park/boat ramp at the end of Simonton st. You need to watch the current there though it can get pretty strong (about 6mph north to south) so it's difficult to approach from the south.
We also launch from Higgs beach quite often (not to far from our house), it's handy because you can park right near the beach (free), unload then roll down to the water (which is very close). They don't seem to mind kayaks there as long as you stay to the left of the main swim area. What we do is launch at Higgs, then sail to the right, in front of Ft Zachary park (outside of the swim area), and snorkle just past the rocks (you need a pretty good anchor though as the current can be quite strong on the point when the tide is moving). They don't seem to mind us beaching as long as we stay to the right of the swim area. During Lobster season we have bagged quite a few Lobsters off of Higgs beach snorkeling and with scuba gear (that whole area is very clear, and shallow). We also anchor south of Tank Island and snorkel once in a while.
Our TI is a little bigger and rigged for open water (we traded in our Oasis for the TI), we sometimes take it out to sand key, mule keys (west of KW) and cotrell key for snorkeling and scuba diving, but those areas might be a bit far and too dangerous for an Oasis. Hey if you have found another nice kayaking area down there let us know.
Good luck
Bob


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:36 pm 
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For those of you who do sail the Oasis, do you have the side kicks installed? My wife and I will start out on small lakes in light winds to learn to do it early this summer.

I was sort of 50-50 on whether to get the sidekicks. I do understand they are a well designed product for their intended use.

Just not sure they are necessary for light sailing....I may have a slightly different view as I swim back to the kayak to right it after the first big gust... :D Bob

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2013 Oasis w/ Sail
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 4:13 pm 
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I don't use the sidekicks. The ability to furl the sail makes all the difference!

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 5:02 pm 
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motobob:
I agree if you make up the furler, and are kayaking in lakes, you are probably ok without the sidekicks. I never put them on either our Oasis or our Revo, but we did capsize often in the gulf (mostly in conditions we shouldn't have been sailing in), but thats another story. But then again the gulf is 85 degrees in the summer so we didn't mind.
Bob


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 6:33 pm 
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fusioneng wrote:
motobob:
I agree if you make up the furler, and are kayaking in lakes, you are probably ok without the sidekicks. I never put them on either our Oasis or our Revo, but we did capsize often in the gulf (mostly in conditions we shouldn't have been sailing in), but thats another story. But then again the gulf is 85 degrees in the summer so we didn't mind.
Bob


Do you use the style of the roto furler in the video you posted?

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2013 Oasis w/ Sail
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