Hobie Cat Forums

It is currently Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:24 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 36 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:44 pm 
Offline
Hobie Approved Guru

Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:46 pm
Posts: 2354
Location: Escondido
I just installed the kit and would like to pass on a few suggestions, since the instructions are not entirely clear.

Overview: There are several innovative furlers users have created, but has been noted, the Hobie kit offers a couple of nice features. 1. the furling line stays clear of the cockpit so it is out of the way, yet easily accessible. 2. the downhaul is part of the furling sheave, also keeping things simple. As a result, there shouldn't be any tangling or binding.

Installation notes: The most important thing that is a little misleading in the instructions is the mounting of the fairlead. The instructions show it mounting parallel with the cockpit rail. This is incorrect. It needs to angle like this so the furling lines are separated coming down the side of the cockpit:
Image
I tried to split the angle

Height of the furler is not discussed in the instructions, but is important. It should be mounted in as much of a horizontal plane as possible with the fairlead. If it is too high, the furler can bind. Each hull is different. On the Revo 11 for example, the lowest location available is right on top of the front hatch. It is still a little higher than I would like, but works without issue. While this interferes with the opening of the front hatch at this location, it's not a big deal since you don't usually need access to the front hatch while sailing. Just remember to keep it as horizontal (usually low) as possible. This should not be an issue with the concave bows (ex: Outback, etc.) Here's a pic showing the Revo 11 installation:
Image
Sorry the pedals are in the way, but hopefully you get the idea. The furler lines angle off to the right and the mast retainer angles down to the left.

The mast retainer's function is to prevent the loss of the mast in the event of capsize. Without it attached, the mast assembly can drop out since the downhaul is no longer attached to the boat. This moves independently of the mast and furler, so it is important that 1. you don't over tension it so as to cause binding and 2. you don't want too much slack so that it falls off in normal use. The instructions suggest that you mount it on the forward bulkhead, but you can mount it anywhere as long as it doesn't foul the furler.

The kit supplies a padeye to anchor the furler tension bungee aft of the cockpit. This may not be necessary. I simply hooked it into the existing cargo well padeye along with the existing bungee -- works great. Try it before you drill, to see if you need to. Here is a pic looking aft showing the cargo well padeye doing double duty:
Image

Those are the most important things IMO regarding installation. Remember each hull is different, so lay everything out and try it before you drill!

Looking forward to RPL's review! 8)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:32 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 1:53 pm
Posts: 371
Location: S.E. Florida
I would like to add another comment on the installation of the new furling system

The installation instructions call for the fairlead to be installed 5" back from the mast. This works fine if you are short and do not use the higher pedal settings. I have the revolution 13 and I am 6'2". My pedals are set to #7. I am glad I put the pedals in before I drilled for the fairlead. At 5" back from the mast on the Revolution 13 my pedals strike the furling lines. Even with the fairlead almost perpendicular to the mast the pedals strike the furling lines. I have mounted my fairlead at an angle parallel to the foot rest and in line with the last foot rest. The furling works flawlessly. The back of the pedal just presses the furling lines at full pedal stroke.

For all you tall people like me please make sure your pedals do not interfere with the furling lines before you permanently mount the fairlead. I have sailed mine enough to know you still have to pedal at times and constantly pedaling into the furling lines will be a nuisance especially since they are under tension.

Revo

_________________
I would rather be kayaking and think about work than to be at work thinking about kayaking.
A Thrill Ride is being dragged around in your kayak for 40 minutes by an extremely large fish.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 6:12 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Thu Nov 28, 2013 6:09 am
Posts: 1
Thanks for the post.

Could you post a picture of how you rig the line that is attached to your sail?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 6:58 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2013 11:11 am
Posts: 27
Location: Boca Ciega Bay, Florida
JCSWFL wrote:
Thanks for the post.

Could you post a picture of how you rig the line that is attached to your sail?


I would like to see that as well. rigging a kayak for sailing is new to me but The standard set up seems counterintuitive to me.

I would think you want a set up that pulls the sail in when you pull on the control line and lets the sail out when you release the control line. Also read somewhere on this forum, and it makes perfect sense to me, that you want non-swiveling block connected aft, to avoid issues related to line twist. I just haven't seen any pictures as to how that would be installed on the Kayak.

I've seen a few threads with some pretty fancy setups, including a custom made wood block in a cup holder. Very nice, but I want simple and as efficient as possible.

Finally, I have the twist/stow rudder and I'm reading I need the larger rudder but can't figure out if the larger rudder works with twist and stow feature and if it's ok to leave on there when NOT sailing...

It sucks being a noob :(

_________________
2010 Mirage Oasis Tandem

Words Of Wisdom From My Old Mentor....

"I never met a man on his deathbed, who wished he had spent more time at the office."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 7:12 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2013 11:11 am
Posts: 27
Location: Boca Ciega Bay, Florida
Roadrunner wrote:
I just installed the kit and would like to pass on a few suggestions, since the instructions are not entirely clear.

Overview: There are several innovative furlers users have created, but has been noted, the Hobie kit offers a couple of nice features. 1. the furling line stays clear of the cockpit so it is out of the way, yet easily accessible. 2. the downhaul is part of the furling sheave, also keeping things simple. As a result, there shouldn't be any tangling or binding.

Installation notes: The most important thing that is a little misleading in the instructions is the mounting of the fairlead. The instructions show it mounting parallel with the cockpit rail. This is incorrect. It needs to angle like this so the furling lines are separated coming down the side of the cockpit:
Image
I tried to split the angle

Height of the furler is not discussed in the instructions, but is important. It should be mounted in as much of a horizontal plane as possible with the fairlead. If it is too high, the furler can bind. Each hull is different. On the Revo 11 for example, the lowest location available is right on top of the front hatch. It is still a little higher than I would like, but works without issue. While this interferes with the opening of the front hatch at this location, it's not a big deal since you don't usually need access to the front hatch while sailing. Just remember to keep it as horizontal (usually low) as possible. This should not be an issue with the concave bows (ex: Outback, etc.) Here's a pic showing the Revo 11 installation:
Image
Sorry the pedals are in the way, but hopefully you get the idea. The furler lines angle off to the right and the mast retainer angles down to the left.

The mast retainer's function is to prevent the loss of the mast in the event of capsize. Without it attached, the mast assembly can drop out since the downhaul is no longer attached to the boat. This moves independently of the mast and furler, so it is important that 1. you don't over tension it so as to cause binding and 2. you don't want too much slack so that it falls off in normal use. The instructions suggest that you mount it on the forward bulkhead, but you can mount it anywhere as long as it doesn't foul the furler.

The kit supplies a padeye to anchor the furler tension bungee aft of the cockpit. This may not be necessary. I simply hooked it into the existing cargo well padeye along with the existing bungee -- works great. Try it before you drill, to see if you need to. Here is a pic looking aft showing the cargo well padeye doing double duty:
Image

Those are the most important things IMO regarding installation. Remember each hull is different, so lay everything out and try it before you drill!

Looking forward to RPL's review! 8)


The illustrated instructions seem to show the lines loosely hanging on the outside of the kayak. Your install shows the lines on the inside of the kayak. Can you share your reasoning?

Larry

_________________
2010 Mirage Oasis Tandem

Words Of Wisdom From My Old Mentor....

"I never met a man on his deathbed, who wished he had spent more time at the office."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 1:44 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 1:53 pm
Posts: 371
Location: S.E. Florida
I am right handed so I control the main sheet with my right hand. The cleat is also on the right side inside the cockpit where I slide the main sheet through with a knot on the end so it won't fly away if you let it go.

I added a pad eye behind the rear hatch with a small swivel block with a shackle head. I direct the main sheet through the block to a new pad eye on the side of the revolution just ahead of the swivel block and then another pad eye and a micro cam cleat aft of the cup holder on the gunnel. The micro cam cleat is just past the pad eye which acts like a fairlead for the cam cleat. The cam cleat locks the main sheet in place when under sail. You can buy micro cam cleats with a fairlead built in as well.

This is a simple two handed method of controlling the main sheet with my right hand and furling/unfurling the sail with my left. The cam cleat eases hand fatigue from always holding tension on the main sheet, you just lock in place and go.

I did add the pad eye on the side of the kayak as in the instructions for the furling kit which keeps the furling lines on the side and not across the cockpit. Attaching to the bungee pad eye the lines did cross the cockpit. Do check the need for it as Roadrunner stated according to your kayak model.

Revo

_________________
I would rather be kayaking and think about work than to be at work thinking about kayaking.
A Thrill Ride is being dragged around in your kayak for 40 minutes by an extremely large fish.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 7:05 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2013 11:11 am
Posts: 27
Location: Boca Ciega Bay, Florida
Ok Revo. Thanks for those details. I think I am going to install the rear pad eye as well as the line off the a block gets hung up in the starboard side bungee eye pad.

Larry

_________________
2010 Mirage Oasis Tandem

Words Of Wisdom From My Old Mentor....

"I never met a man on his deathbed, who wished he had spent more time at the office."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:58 am 
Offline
Hobie Approved Guru

Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:46 pm
Posts: 2354
Location: Escondido
You can sheet the mainsheet through the existing padeye on the Revo 13 as shown here
Image Image

or add a new padeye as Revo has
Image Image

As you can see, the sail shape looks decent on both. Personally I think Revo's positioning (for the Revo 13) gives a slightly better sheeting angle and performance, but either will work for someone who doesn't want to add another padeye.

I run the mainsheet forward from that point without additional routing to another swivel block set forward like this:
Image
In essence, now you can pull back on the sail rather forward to control it for a more natural position. You may have to use a longer mainsheet on some models.

Note the cam cleat to secure the sheet as Revo describes (locations can vary according to circumstance and boat). For the Revos, Sport and Adventure I don't recommend them unless the wind is light or with Sidekicks because these boats respond quickly to gusts and you need to be ready to dump wind instantly on occasion or increase the risk of capsize. The beamier boats have a little more stability and can better benefit from the cleat. You can always add the cleat later if appropriate.

Here's an old post discussing rigging and a big caveat regarding the use of swivel blocks. It also shows detachable sheeting and the obvious benefits for easy stowing and raising the sail. viewtopic.php?f=32&t=47998&p=213539&hilit=#p213539

flrider wrote:
The illustrated instructions seem to show the lines loosely hanging on the outside of the kayak. Your install shows the lines on the inside of the kayak. Can you share your reasoning?
In reality there is tension on the furler provided by the bungee so the lines run straight point to point. Since I anchored the bungee to the existing cargo padeye, that's just how they ended up -- works fine on this application. You can route them outboard but I don't see an advantage. As shown, they are out of the way, easy to reach and the installation is very simple and easily portable. The outboard sides are free to take a paddle or stowed sail without interference. If you don't don't like it after trying it out, it's easy enough to redirect them later. 8)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:14 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2013 11:11 am
Posts: 27
Location: Boca Ciega Bay, Florida
flrider wrote:
The illustrated instructions seem to show the lines loosely hanging on the outside of the kayak. Your install shows the lines on the inside of the kayak. Can you share your reasoning?
In reality there is tension on the furler provided by the bungee so the lines run straight point to point. Since I anchored the bungee to the existing cargo padeye, that's just how they ended up -- works fine on this application. You can route them outboard but I don't see an advantage. As shown, they are out of the way, easy to reach and the installation is very simple and easily portable. The outboard sides are free to take a paddle or stowed sail without interference. If you don't don't like it after trying it out, it's easy enough to redirect them later. 8)[/quote]

Yes, I found that to be true as well. The location of the guide thingy (don't know what it's called) on mine and the bungee connect not the rear storage bungee tab, put my line just on the outside edge. Pictures to come...

_________________
2010 Mirage Oasis Tandem

Words Of Wisdom From My Old Mentor....

"I never met a man on his deathbed, who wished he had spent more time at the office."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 8:55 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 1:53 pm
Posts: 371
Location: S.E. Florida
Yes Roadrunner use of a cam cleat is only advised with sidekick amas. I use the amas all the time simply because I want to swim only when I want to swim. The Revolution does have a tendency to turtle on higher winds and gusts. I never let go of the main sheet even when in the cam cleat. It just lets your hand relax while sailing. The constant tension of the line when holding it can fatigue your hand after long duration. Just a convenience factor only. A quick upward pull and it is free in case of a gust.

This was my previous hull. I now only have one pad eye in front of the cam cleat.
Image
you can see the cam cleat just behind the cup holder.
Image

Revo

_________________
I would rather be kayaking and think about work than to be at work thinking about kayaking.
A Thrill Ride is being dragged around in your kayak for 40 minutes by an extremely large fish.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 8:29 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2013 8:21 pm
Posts: 2
Location: Sugar Land, TX
Revo, you said "This is a simple two handed method of controlling the main sheet with my right hand and furling/unfurling the sail with my left. The cam cleat eases hand fatigue from always holding tension on the main sheet, you just lock in place and go."

Did you mount the furling lines on the left side?

I'm just fixing to mount my fairlead and I like the idea of controlling the furling with my left hand and the main sheet with my right. The instructions show it on the the furling lines on the right but that's not set in stone.
Thanks Denny


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:33 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 1:53 pm
Posts: 371
Location: S.E. Florida
Yes I mounted mine on the left. The fairlead will work on either side.

I installed my anchor trolley on the right side of my new hull as it is in the picture. The furling line would be a tangle issue if it was on the same side as the anchor trolley.

Revo

_________________
I would rather be kayaking and think about work than to be at work thinking about kayaking.
A Thrill Ride is being dragged around in your kayak for 40 minutes by an extremely large fish.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:15 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2013 8:21 pm
Posts: 2
Location: Sugar Land, TX
Well I installed my furling kit and I learned a few things. First I wanted to make sure that the pedals didn’t hit the furling lines so I put the mirage drive on position 7 and tested the location of the fairlead. I ended up with it almost directly across from the mast. Not the best angle for pulling the lines but I didn’t want to have the pedals hit either. Then I took Revo’s lead and mounted the furler on the left or steering side, which when not using the pad eye provided interferes with the steering lever. I went ahead and mounted the pad eye on the side of the kayak; by the way there is no way to reach the inside of the kayak to mount the pad eye on my 2014 Outback. So I used rivets instead of screws. Also when mounted the fairlead make sure there is clearance for the nut and washer if you are close to a sharp edge. The fairlead has two steps for the screws the front one doesn’t give much length for the screw to stick out, but the rear one has plenty of length when the screw is inserted. I ended up having to grind a flat on one washer to get it to clear the edge I mounted it near. Plus it was the one that didn’t stick out very far which made getting the nut and washer on a pain. To really get the line out of the cockpit area you need a second fairlead. But I think it will work OK the way it is. I also had to untie the furling line to reposition one of the balls on the other side of the knot and I put the other knot in a different location. You just have to play with it to get them in the position you need.
DF

I took pictures, but not have a site to host them. I tried pasting but it didn't work.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:39 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 1:53 pm
Posts: 371
Location: S.E. Florida
dennyf.

As you can see in my quote below from above and even in Roadrunners pictures the furling line ends up perpendicular to the mast for us tall people at #7 setting. I had to adjust the balls too. It definitely is a one size fits all but with adjustments per model and type of kayak.

Revo


Revo_1756 wrote:
I would like to add another comment on the installation of the new furling system

The installation instructions call for the fairlead to be installed 5" back from the mast. This works fine if you are short and do not use the higher pedal settings. I have the revolution 13 and I am 6'2". My pedals are set to #7. I am glad I put the pedals in before I drilled for the fairlead. At 5" back from the mast on the Revolution 13 my pedals strike the furling lines. Even with the fairlead almost perpendicular to the mast the pedals strike the furling lines. I have mounted my fairlead at an angle parallel to the foot rest and in line with the last foot rest. The furling works flawlessly. The back of the pedal just presses the furling lines at full pedal stroke.

For all you tall people like me please make sure your pedals do not interfere with the furling lines before you permanently mount the fairlead. I have sailed mine enough to know you still have to pedal at times and constantly pedaling into the furling lines will be a nuisance especially since they are under tension.

Revo

_________________
I would rather be kayaking and think about work than to be at work thinking about kayaking.
A Thrill Ride is being dragged around in your kayak for 40 minutes by an extremely large fish.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 5:12 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:40 am
Posts: 112
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
Roadrunner wrote:
You can sheet the mainsheet through the existing padeye on the Revo 13 as shown here
Image Image

or add a new padeye as Revo has
Image Image

Note the cam cleat to secure the sheet as Revo describes (locations can vary according to circumstance and boat). For the Revos, Sport and Adventure I don't recommend them unless the wind is light or with Sidekicks because these boats respond quickly to gusts and you need to be ready to dump wind instantly on occasion or increase the risk of capsize. The beamier boats have a little more stability and can better benefit from the cleat. You can always add the cleat later if appropriate.


I am VERY interested in purchasing the Furler Kit for my Outback. Thanks for all your installation feedback.

But I am surprised regarding the sub-discussion regarding the use of a cam cleat. My issue isn't with using the cleat, but it appears nobody is taking advantage of their pulley system set-up. I now attach my sail line to the rear pad eye first (not the sail!), then run the line up to the sail and through a pulley. It then goes back down to a pulley at the rear pad eye, and then out to the cockpit. This "double line" to the sail via pulleys gives me a 2 to 1 tightening advantage on the sail. I used to get sore hands holding the sail line before this modification. Now the pressure is just half what it used to be …so the cleat idea is now a mere luxury item (which I might install anyway).

The only downsides is that there is a slightly greater chance of line tangling (which seems to happen only when I'm installing the setup, NOT when sailing), and that more sail line piles-up in the cockpit because the the ratio of rope to pull the sail tight is now doubled (in other words, I have to pull twice the length of line between the sail and the rear pulley to set the sail with this new scheme.

_________________
Absolute kayaking corrupts absolutely.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 36 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group