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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 11:10 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:43 pm
Posts: 24
Location: New Mexico
Does anyone know how the Revolution responds when sailing with the Sidekick Amas. I'm lake sailing in whitecaps and gusts. If I was quartering and a gust came up, how would the boat react when the downwind Ama is pressed onto the water? Does this pull the bow downwind? If so, does the rudder have enough leverage to point the bow upwind? Any real world experience feedback would be appreciated. Beside the added lateral stability, what are the changes of the Revolution's handling when sailing with Amas?


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 3:38 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:56 am
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Location: Tallahassee, FL
Hey wingit,
Welcome to the Hobie Forum. Wish I could help you specifically, but I have never sailed the Revo. But, I would expect it to be a very nice and swift sailer, especially with the Sidekicks in place. I have, however, sailed both my OB and my wife's Sport using my home-made lobster pot buoy outriggers. Both yaks do very well in 10-20 knot breezes. Just remember to leave the Mirage Drive in place while sailing because it is a big help in tacking, stabiliy control, and in coming about off a reach. With regard to the downwind ama, it will dig in a bit, especially in a chop, but I have not noticed it to be sufficient enough to pull the bow significantly off course, at least not in my limited experience. And this was with the original rudders--the new Twist and Stow jobs should permit much better control when sailing due to their increased surface area. The pic below is of my OB with my lobster pot buoy outriggers installed. Hope the above is of some help. Best of luck!
Dick

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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2007 2:16 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 11:59 pm
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Location: Coffs Harbour, NSW, Australia
G'Day Apalach,
When you say, "With regard to the downwind ama, it will dig in a bit, especially in a chop..." are you referring to your homebuilt fixed-mounting floats or the Hobie Sidekick swivel-mount floats?

There are subtle differences in shape and mounting between yours and Hobie's that could make a big difference. IE the nose of your floats are not shaped to ride up and out if it burys in a gust

I also am using my Revo for more sailing than anticipated and wonder if the Hobie outriggers will reduce the amount of sail-trimming I have to do when holding a course.

Full marks to you for building your own system, I would too if I had the time but I would rather be out sailing.

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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2007 9:26 pm 
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Location: Tallahassee, FL
Hey Max,
I don't have the Sidekicks--only my DIY lobster pot buoys, so all my comments refer to these. Mine are nicely streamlined however, so there is not much "digging in." Rather they ride up, out, and thru the chop like the bow of a ship, even producing the classic "bone in the teeth" (or bow wave) of the WW II US Navy's destroyer squadrons, something that I have a little familiarity with. Here is a pic that I took of one of my lobster pot buoys showing a bit of the "bone" during a "power pedal."

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The lobster pot PVC arms are fully adjustable: up, down, forward, back, as you can see here. So I usually set them to ride a couple of inches above the water surface when on an even keel.

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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 12:30 am 
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Location: Coffs Harbour, NSW, Australia
Ah I see!
You can adjust the angle-of-attack, an aeronautical term and something I have had some experience with ; )

The close-up photo shows it working well, I am suprised that they are as rigid as they appear considering there is only one mounting point but I guess the load isnt great.

Thanx for the extra info.

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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 11:01 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:43 pm
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Location: New Mexico
Hi Apalach,
Thanks for your reply. I thought I posted a response a weeks ago but it's not up on this forum so I'll try again (I'm new to forums). I like the photos of your rig and the way the outriggers can be folded back out of the way.

I'm still hoping to hear from someone who has sailed a Revo with Hobie amas in rigorous conditions. That's probably the only time I'd use them.

I emailed the Hobie support site with questions and they replied:
While the kayak w/ sail can be sailed in "extreme" conditions, I would
say that it is not meant to be or built to be used in those conditions.
You have to remember that this is first and foremost a KAYAK that has an
option for a sail to be used for recreational purposes.
To answer a couple of your questions; when a gust hits you will more
likely round up into the wind rather than away from the wind. If you
find that the rudder is not enough to keep the boat tracking straight
for the wind conditions you're sailing in, we do have an option to
upgrade to a larger rudder.

I guess they haven't sailed a Revo with Sidekicks either. I think my Revo (bought Sept. 06) came with a sailing rudder.


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 Post subject: G'Day Wingit.
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 1:03 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 11:59 pm
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Location: Coffs Harbour, NSW, Australia
Roadrunner and Aloha Dan have some positive info on sailing with the AMA Sidekick over on the, "2007 Adventure incompatible with "sidekick ama kit" Thread.

I have a Revo and I bought it primarily as a Yak but the sailing is better than I expected and I intend to do more of it.

I am wondering which of the three selectable heights the floats should be set at for sailing however.

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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 9:31 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:46 pm
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Location: Escondido
wingit wrote:
I think my Revo (bought Sept. 06) came with a sailing rudder.

All the kayaks (except the Adventure Island) come with the standard rudder. It is about 11 1/4" long and 46 sq. in. The optional sailing rudder is about 13 1/2 " long and 90 sq. in. Although the standard rudder works pretty well with the Revo, the sailing rudder makes a definite difference! If you're having any controllablity issues (close hauled, heeling for example), the sailing rudder will fix it! IMO, the sailing rudder will also improve your upwind tracking slightly ( it augments your fins, allowing less side slip). You can also get further upwind performance gains with the larger Turbofins.

If yours came with the sailing rudder, your dealer might have included it with your sail.

Max, you would probably want the Sidekick amas rotated up for sailing to minimize drag (notice the aeronautical term?), using your body to counteract the heeling angle as much as possible (you'll be surprised how much you can "hike out" with the Revo when you get used to it). This also keeps the upwind ama well clear of the chop. The leeward ama will take over when the boat starts to heel more. But why not experiment around? 8)


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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 11:00 pm 
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Location: Coffs Harbour, NSW, Australia
All good info and not what I expected or would have tried first.

Fortunately I read your other post about the larger rudder earlier and ordered it with the Sailkit. (In fact the dealer included it for free).

I will be more confident about hangin' the bod out the side with the Sidekick fitted.

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 Post subject: Haven Sailed the Revo
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 8:33 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2006 9:00 am
Posts: 11
Hey Guys lots good post from u all Thanks.
After sailing 03/04 outback solo and with sidekicks. Well worth the money. But unable to upgrade rudder/larger hatches new hull designs. I bought the Revo 3 wks ago and now with the larger rudder and side kicks. I have only been on flat water for the most part sailing with strong winds and what a difference it makes. No more getting turned into the wind when it blows with the new rudder. It's not a H16 but for what it is, is sweet. Very smooth cuts right thru the water, Fastest is a little over 5mph. Wind stopped. I read where the boat sits high and dry. Not so for me but from the outback days Water is good. Thats half the fun. lol Just need to remember to open the scuppers under the seat. Hopes this helps and any question I could answer. Just ask. I'm water bound Oh and it paddles so much better than the older OB


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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 12:44 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:43 pm
Posts: 24
Location: New Mexico
I've been out twice using new Sidekick Amas on my Revo. The first day really put them to the test. Strong gusts, lots of wind direction shifts and white caps. The amas definitely prevent capsizing, making it fun to sail even though the wind speed was overpowering at times. The directions recommend sailing with the amas in the highest of the 3 positions. This is because they add a lot of drag when they are in the water. The inflated shape doesn't slice through the water, so you're better off with them not touching until the dynamics get too strong and then they're a welcome stabilizer. I was concerned that the leward ama would pull the bow downwind when it was dragging in the water, but it was not really a factor. The boat still wanted head into the wind.

The cross bar was a little longer than optimal for the Revo, so I shortened it by 1 1/4". This keeps the ends from sticking out much past the attachment points. If the amas were not attached this protrusion would have the potential of snagging the mainsheet. I also had to drill 3 new holes in the center bar (1 1/4" in) on one side to accommodate the sidekick button.


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