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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 6:00 pm 
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Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 3:49 pm
Posts: 3
Location: Birmingham, Ala
Hello All,
Brief History. 10 years ago I crewed mono-hulls. My brother was a member of a yachet club in North GA. so we spend a good portion on the summer on the water. About 1-1/2 years ago something has attracted me to small catamarans. So I started trolling the various sites for info. From sailing kayaks to some Woods designs, I would always turn back to craigslist for H16's but the stars never lined up.
3 months ago my cousin from Pennsicola was in town so I went ahead and told him to find me one of those sweet deals he's known for finding. 2 weeks ago he tells me I'm the proud new owner of an H20. "Sight unseen". Oh yeah and me and my wife are expecting our first baby in a couple months too. $200. It's just money,right?
I'm not so worried about the complexity of the miracle as my brother will be more than willing to commandeer, I mean assist in the learning curve. A new Tramp and running gear can be purchased and installed relatively easy over the "off season". The main sail is kinda pricey so I may have to tap into a used market when I can get the funds available. My 5 Gal glass carboy sailboat fund piggy bank has been slow in developing. My cuz says there is a rudder system but its not in the picture. I plan to get the boat in two weeks.
Anyway, to the heart of the post. This crack at the gudgeon appears to be a straight forwards fix. The port allows for easy access, based on the info I've found online there shouldnt be a bulkhead seperationing the two. Is there??? I just wanted to share my excitement and hopefully not get the wind taken from my sails but I welcome all opinions.

Thanks in advance
P.S. Im new on Flickr so it may take me a couple tries to get the pics/link posted

https://www.flickr.com/photos/144092230@N03/shares/8085TF


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 5:38 am 
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Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:30 am
Posts: 10
Location: Kansas, USA
The 20 is a great boat, once on the water.

I bought a real nice one about a year ago. Had one crack at the top of each stern horizontally. Rather than wait and watch others develop, decided to brace the stern. Others have commented their cracks never change. I could look down on mine and see the stern had curved where the forces on the rudder pushed the bottom portion aft and the top forward. On a 16 the top gudgeon is more inline with the top of the hull which takes the force better and bottom is closer to the bottom. The 20 has more stern with nothing to withstand the forces imo.

So what I did was use an aluminum plate on the outside that extends from the top of the hull down, 11" x 4" x 3/8", bought at the local a/c surplus store. Inside I using 2 roofers squares per hull, flat portion against the stern, other side against the bottom of the hull. Harbor freight has them like $5 ea. There is a little grinding on the roofers square where the bolts go through the flat portion. Used G flex on the inside to glue the square to the stern and bottom and silicon sealer on the aluminum plate to stern to seal the deal. The roofers square doesn't extend all the way to the top gudgeons so you use two aluminum pieces on the inside per side that the gudgeon bolts go through. You will need longer screws of course.

With the bracing, the aluminum piece on the outside transmits the force to the top of the hull but the bottom still has nothing to withstand the force pulling to the rear, hence the roofers squares which puts the load into the bottom of the hull.

With the deformation of mine, the stainless pin had a bow in it and with wear on the gudgeon both were replaced. Just make sure everything is lined up with a straight pin before you start drilling.

If you or anyone wants pics send me an email.

Happy sailing. You'll enjoy the 20 once you get everything lined out.

Also on your main, if it is still in decent condition.... I am having problems with too much camber and not able to get the shape I was wanting. Talked to Chip at Whirlwind and he was real helpful. Your luff rope shrinks over time. At the bottom remove the stitching that holds the rope, should be about 2" of thread, carefully. Restretch the luff by sailing a few times using the downhaul, resew. I'm still in this process so the jury is still out, but from my symptoms Chip was pretty sure the rope trick would bring it back. The rope is cut with a hot knife, so if there is a 'knob' at the bottom that needs to be removed to help it slide up the sleeve. Good luck.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 7:42 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 7:11 pm
Posts: 4979
Location: Detroit, MI
For $200, it's hard to go wrong (the trailer alone may be worth that).

Stuff I noticed from the photos:
Power-wash the whole boat to get the grunge off. That will allow you to assess the entire boat/structure. Look for cracks (especially at the aft end of the daggerboard trunks on the hull bottoms and underneath the crossbar attachments), dings, etc. that need to be repaired. The vinyl letters will probably come off and unfortunately, the "shadow" they leave (original gel coat underneath) is impossible to blend in completely. Lots of rubbing and polishing compound helps, but they will always be somewhat visible.

That's a pretty nasty ding behind the rear crossbar on the stbd. hull. That needs fixing. I can't tell if there's another ding right below it on the hull or if it's just dirt. Either way, something hit that hull hard. The damage is almost certainly worse than what you can see on the surface.

The tramp lacing in the back is all wrong - the line is about 4x the size it should be. Use a 3 mm diameter Dyneema line to lace the tramp and download the assembly manual to see how it's supposed to be done.

That's about all I could tell from the photos. You will be appalled at the cost of a new tramp. Hobie tramps are the best, but low production numbers and a lot of hand work in a 20 tramp make them very expensive.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:28 am 
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Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 10:25 am
Posts: 3054
Location: Jersey Shore
No bulkhead between the rear access port and the transom, it should be a straight forward fix and the gudgeons are thru-bolted which makes them easy to remove (compared to other Hobies where the gudgeons screw into drilled and tapped plates in the transom). Based on the fact that the bottom gudgeon has the rudder pin partially installed, my guess would be that it's bent and frozen in the gudgeon. It could be a chore getting the pin out (H20 rudder pins had a nasty habit of bending under load).

I agree that $200 would have made this a tough boat to walk away from, so you probably did OK, but the real question is how much money is it going to take to get the thing on the water? I could easily see you spending several thousand bucks to make it sea worthy - the boat has been neglected. There's other damage on the hulls that needs to be repaired. The tramp needs to be replaced. If the comptip sat out in the sun uncovered for a few decades, it could be totally sun damaged. Plus the condition of the sails, rigging, whatever is missing... in the end, this $200 boat is going to end up costing you a lot more than $200.

I would also suggest adding cradles to the trailer in place of the rollers. The H20 hulls do not like to be point loaded by rollers.

sm


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 10:40 am 
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Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 3:49 pm
Posts: 3
Location: Birmingham, Ala
Thanks for all the replies. The sails were accidentally sold in an estate sale. My cousin was told there bulle were ok other than those 2 spots. I did ask him about the cracking under the front beam that is typical with the earlier boats and he didn't see anything. I didn't think about the dagger board slots. I didn't realize the significance of the "ding" on he side of the deck either but now you mention it I see your point. I did notice were many people replace the rudder pins with a single stainless pin due to bending.
I'll be inspecting every sq inch when I get there. I was thinking I'd be in it about $3k or so but didn't consider new comp tip either. If the problems keep adding up, I may just keep it as pond art and use the trailer(after I do the cradle upgrade.)
Can't wait to see it first hand. Hopefull I can sort through the details but I'm sure I'll be reporting back about something. Thanks the lot of yas.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 7:59 am 
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Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 3:49 pm
Posts: 3
Location: Birmingham, Ala
HAPPY 4TH,


Well I haven't had a chance to actually pressure wash and clean the boat properly but I think I've got a good enough idea to share the extent of my disappointment. I was considering parting the boat out and buying a H16 with the recovered funds but the cross beams are the only thing that don't need any repairs. I'm going to spare the details of the horror story trip to the coast but will say the starboard aft support on the trailer broke. Our pre trip structural integrity test didn't help. once I noticed the issue, I moved the boat forward on the trailer and strapped the port hull down on the front of the trailer which created more pressure on a previous repair(aft port keel) that obviously wasn't strong enough to tote the load.(SRM point loading comment was the first thing I thought about.) The beach was nice and found lots of shells tho.
I didn't notice anymore damage to the "ding" behind the aft beam as Mbounds mentioned in the first set of pics.
Thanks for all the input to date guys. I told my wife I'd upload more photos and get my sailing buddies(that's you guys)to help me thru the decision process.

No boom
No dagger boards
No rudder system
No sails
Missing 1/2 to 3/4th of rigging best I can tell.

I thought of a name tho "double or nothing"


Without further ado, for your amusement, entertainment, disgust I now present the damage report.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/144092230 ... 9570080520


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 9:07 am 
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Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:22 pm
Posts: 257
Wow, Sorry.

Not worth the trip you made in my humble opinion. The mast and cross arms should be saved but the hulls would need major infusion of cash (and time) to be sea worthy again. You will NEVER get your money back if you attempted to "bring her back".

_________________
H18 '85
H18 '89 "Knotty Passion"
H20 '96 "20/20 Vision"
Fleet 259 Central Coast California


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 9:35 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2011 11:35 am
Posts: 248
Location: Memphis, TN
Yea, missing those high ticket items you'd still have bad non trustworthy hulls. That being said you're about 4 hours away from me and i'd be interested in buying a few spare parts for my Hobie 20 from you. If you decide on a part out let me know... wouldn't need to ship anything.
grovertim@gmail.com

_________________
Tim Grover

Memphis, TN fleet 134
Hobie 16 and 20!
Image


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:04 am 
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Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 10:13 pm
Posts: 76
My condolances. Wow the boat is trashed. So sad to see one these great boats just left to die like that. Good luck with whatever you decide to do with the boat. Ryan


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 7:59 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2008 8:21 am
Posts: 241
Location: St. Helena, CA
I disagree with some of the above posts. You have some time invested in it so I would say Power Wash it and see what you got!!!

It also depends on how much of a perfectionist you are and how much your willing to spend and if you have the skills to do the work yourself. I agree that its not worth trying to make this boat perfect.

Hear is how I would attack it: What do you have to loose?
1 Power wash and see what you have.
2 Pull the tramp, Its makes the whole project look worse.
3 Evaluate the fiberglass damage one problem at a time. Do you or a friend have fiberglassing skills and experience? If you don't then bail out! If you do then grind out the cracks and make the repairs.

Parts list that will get you by, :
1 Check with the racers in your area for older sails. I just sold a jib for $150 a Main might be $300 to $500 minus battens and depending on condition.
2 a H18 boom will work and they are cheap. $50 a H20 used $200
3 Rudder systems look for a used H18 newer style $300
4 Tramp go aftermarket $350 or post that you are looking for a used Hobie and see if you get lucky.
5 Dagerboards used $300 to $400 ebay
6 Furler housing $15 or you can buy the whole rebuild kit for $50

Watch Craigslist, Ebay and talk to your local fleet and racers, you might find some deals.

IMHO It really depends on your skills, time, and what your willing to except as a finished boat.

Good luck, If you were in the San Francisco area I would bail you out for $200.

_________________
Corkguy H18


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