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 Post subject: Re: Squaretop Mainsail.
PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 2:10 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:05 pm
Posts: 136
Location: Shasta Lake/ Redding, CA
Here a nice visual comparison. Mine on left.
Image

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Wes
98 Miracle 20 + magnum wings


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 Post subject: Re: Squaretop Mainsail.
PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 9:06 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 4:48 pm
Posts: 17
Location: Sioux Falls SD
Wes - I need you and your friend on the lake to join our site for Hobie 20 guys.
www.hobie-20.ning.com get registered.

Send me your friends name and email so I can stay in touch with you guys. The sites for racers and non racers alike. There are are over 100 Hobie 20 sailors registered there!

Paul

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Paul Bommersbach

pbommersbach@sio.midco.net


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 Post subject: Re: Squaretop Mainsail.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 5:49 am 
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Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 10:41 am
Posts: 23
Location: St.Augustine,Florida
Thanks Wes for your input ! This is what I was looking for when I posted a qeustion about a squaretop sail .
Is there anybody else with experiance with square top sail on a H-20 ?
Thanks.
Arnis.


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 Post subject: Re: Squaretop Mainsail.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 7:22 am 
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Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:45 pm
Posts: 1662
Location: Northfield Minnesota
(I don't own a H20, or have even sailed on much. I skippered NA's a couple years ago and that's about it)
If you're going to put a square top on it, I'd find a different mast. The comptip just can't handle the amount of downhaul, or sheet tension it takes to get a proper shape out of the sail. You'll more than likely want to switch to a 10:1 mainsheet, and a 16:1 downhaul. I'd think you're asking for the comptip to explode with both maxed out.

Getting a aftermarket sail out of Pentex would probably be a really good move though.


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 Post subject: Re: Squaretop Mainsail.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 7:36 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 7:11 pm
Posts: 4584
Location: Detroit, MI
H18sailaway wrote:
Here a nice visual comparison. Mine on left.
Image


Some "mitigating factors" that influence why that squaretop-equipped boat was suddenly faster than yours:
- More sail area
- The squaretop is new
- The sail on the other boat is old.
- There's a Bob on the other boat (weight and drag)
- There are wings on the other boat (weight and drag)

Just sayin'


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 Post subject: Re: Squaretop Mainsail.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 9:11 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:05 pm
Posts: 136
Location: Shasta Lake/ Redding, CA
You are forgetting the "before and after" part. The only thing that changed was the sail. I still think that if you take identical boats and put brand new hobie sails on one and brand a brand new square on the other...the boat with the square top will have a horsepower advantage. Mbounds is right, our test WAS NOT a scientific approach and there were some wacky factors. I feel that Mel would of had an advantage even with all the crap off my boat and new sails. It will be easier to agree when you take a look at many of the latest designs that are around you in the competitive sailing world(F18 class). Do you think that ANYONE in that class would want to go back to a pin head design if they had to. negative
And yeah the comptip part sucks.
There were some people that advised against the idea when I was pondering the purchase of a square head for my H18. I went ahead and got one any way and it worked beautifuly in my dumb opinion. I used it for 1 full season, 7 months in a row, 2-3 times a week, all different wind ranges and with anywhere from 1-4 people on board and It never appeared that my comp tip was going to explode(and it was a crappy one) so there was 'some' worry I guess.
Also, I don't think that a square head puts quite as much pressure on the mast or the comp tip through the main sheets as it might seem or look like.

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Wes
98 Miracle 20 + magnum wings


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 Post subject: Re: Squaretop Mainsail.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 9:14 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:05 pm
Posts: 136
Location: Shasta Lake/ Redding, CA
Hey Paul, we are both already members on the other 20 site. Thanks for the invite though.

Wes

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Wes
98 Miracle 20 + magnum wings


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 Post subject: Re: Squaretop Mainsail.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 9:33 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:05 pm
Posts: 136
Location: Shasta Lake/ Redding, CA
and Hey! If any one here wants to talk "real" catamaran performance, go a head and take a look at this "bad boy" suckers:

Image
Image

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Wes
98 Miracle 20 + magnum wings


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 Post subject: Re: Squaretop Mainsail.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 10:39 am 
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Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:58 am
Posts: 575
Location: Knoxville, TN
Wes,

I've got to ask, what was the inspirtation behind your PVC "bad Boy", did you ever try to actually sail it, and if so, what was the result?

After reading all the discussion about square top vs. stock Hobie, by opinion is that stock sails are the way to go. You just can't beat class racing and I think anyone would be making a mistake to eliminate themselves from it. If you don't race, what difference does it make IF the square top gives you a slight increment in performance that you might not even be able to notice? Would a square top hurt your resale? You bet it would. I wouldn't even consider buying a boat that wasn't class legal unless the price were discounted enough for me to afford buying a new set of Hobie sails. I'm sure many others share the same opinion. I think the advantages of a stock Hobie sail outweigh those, if any, of the square top.

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Mark Van Doren
Division 9 Chairman
H16 #112205 (Richard Petty Signature Edition)
H14T #47787
H20 #647 (sold)


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 Post subject: Re: Squaretop Mainsail.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 12:47 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:05 pm
Posts: 136
Location: Shasta Lake/ Redding, CA
The inspiration was to see if I could improve upon a more primitive design that I found on the internet. This guy had a picture of a boat that he had built to sail on for transportation across this lake that he discovered in Brazil. The man was an American visiting Brazil and he spent like three months camping on a little Island. He decided to build this little catamaran so he wouldn't have to paddle every where. It had a single sail made from plastic sheeting. I'll see If I can find a link to the site. This guy has built many other versions that are all bigger and more complex.

It was simply a project to keep me busy during last winter. My ultimate plan was to design and build a sail boat that someone could build at home with no special tools or knowledge, that was collapsible for transportation, something that would be reasonably affordable for most, and all the parts (including sail material and blocks)would be available at either a Home Depot, Lowes or a well supplied local hardware store (well, accept for the PVC pontoons). no cheating using West marine for anything! I documented every single step of the construction with photos and documented all measurements, supplies, materials and cuts(including sail plans). I was going to make my own little web site and sell the plans like for $5 bucks and then decided that know one would probably want to build it realistically so I aborted the idea of completing the final stages of the plans and website.


My little boat actually sailed very well believe it or not considering that the cost of it was under $300 and my first attempt! The blue prints were generated on windows paint!! It had a sliding center board and a kick up rudder for beaching, a main sail, a jib and a reacher or genoa up front on a bow sprit!...certainly not high performance, but no slug either for a garage creation, wind powered contraption. It was SUPER FUN to build and Fun to sail around on the lake.

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Wes
98 Miracle 20 + magnum wings


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 Post subject: Re: Squaretop Mainsail.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 1:06 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:05 pm
Posts: 136
Location: Shasta Lake/ Redding, CA
here it is... http://rebelcat.com/ the little boat on the top left of his website front page was the design i was trying to improve upon. There was no Rebelcat 5 yet.

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Wes
98 Miracle 20 + magnum wings


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 Post subject: Re: Squaretop Mainsail.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 9:34 pm 
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Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:58 am
Posts: 575
Location: Knoxville, TN
Well, I've done it! I just put my money where my mouth (or keyboard) is and ordered a new set of Hobie built H20 sails through my local dealer, Mariner Sails. I went custom on the main, it'll be red, white, blue and teal. If I don't begin to place any better, at least the back of the pack will look good. Come on down to Mid-Winters East, March 20-21 in Pascagoula, MS, and check'em out. MWE is farther west than usual. You Division 6 and 14 types especially should make it over there. I look forward to seeing you.

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Mark Van Doren
Division 9 Chairman
H16 #112205 (Richard Petty Signature Edition)
H14T #47787
H20 #647 (sold)


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 Post subject: Re: Squaretop Mainsail.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:18 pm 
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Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 6:53 am
Posts: 237
Location: Storm Lake, IA
sweet!!! colored H20 sails are becoming rare. looking forward to seeing them congrats.


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 Post subject: Re: Squaretop Mainsail.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 5:34 pm 
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Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2006 11:24 am
Posts: 81
Congratulations on your new Colored H20 Sails Mark!
It is nice to know that I am not the only one … good for you!
I am glad that you didnt copy mine! (Although I would have been flattered)
To me, one of the best advertisements for a Hobie is the colored sails – more non-sailors identify with the Hobie tradition of the colored sails. Too bad the color palette is dwindling for the 20 and other boats.
Are you putting a window in your main?
- Dwight

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Dwight Manning
Hobie 20 #916 San Jose CA 2000 Alter Cup boat
Hobie 18 #916 Santa Cruz CA 1989 Worlds Boat
Hobie 16 #16 San Jose CA (Jordan) 2005 Custom Main
Hobie 16 #54466 Calling Lake Alta Tequila sunrise


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 Post subject: Re: Squaretop Mainsail.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:58 pm 
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Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:58 am
Posts: 575
Location: Knoxville, TN
Yes, I did ask for windows in the main and jib. My first thought for a new main and jib was to get both in solid blue, reminiscent of the Hobie 16 Worlds boats from the mid-70s, however, the type of dacron that Hobie uses for H20 jibs is only available in white. Then I designed a red, white and blue sail, leaving out teal because I thought it would clash. My wife and daughter convinced me otherwise. I drew a bunch of different designs, my top two are below. Hopefully these will stimulate others to buy colored sails. I agree, that most people associate Hobies with colored sails, so hopefully I can help sustain that tradition. Custom colored sails are approximately $300 more than white sails, but they sure make the boat stand out. I ordered my new sails on January 6, I should have them for Mid-Winters East.

Despite getting instructions for posting pictures on the Open Forum, I still wasn't able to get pictures to post here. Here's a link to a photo of my sail designs posted on the H20 social network.

http://api.ning.com/files/s5z5ptuQ9YCUr ... height=552

Scuzzlebutt, I will take may camera sailing with us this season. You had better hope that I don't figure out this posting thing! By the way, my money is on Scuzzlebutt, aka "Dead Meat" to win the Wave North Americans.

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Mark Van Doren
Division 9 Chairman
H16 #112205 (Richard Petty Signature Edition)
H14T #47787
H20 #647 (sold)


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