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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2005 7:40 am 
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I sail on Lake Michigan from the Milwaukee Harbor, and often wind up heading out by myself (I work there and my decision to sail if often very last-minute). I love to sail in high winds, but my new H20 is really overpowered compared to my old H18. I still have the H18 with a spare mainsail. I wondered if anybody's tried using an H18 sail on a H20 when it's really windy? I'm not racing--just having fun. I know the halyard ring wouldn't reach the top of the mast, but I could easily cleat the halyard. I could also use a short line and loop around the boom to attach the clew. Any other things I'd have to do? Is it an OK idea or does somebody have a bad experience in trying to do this?

Thanks.

Don Monnot


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 5:59 am 
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hey i'm interested if anyone's tried this. i have an 18 sail and am just starting to sail a friends 20, often alone. been out in very high wind and going downwind was pretty wild. i also will be racing and hate to stay onshore if it's blowing, i told my old 18 crew if the races were cancelled because of high wind... get your stuff on we're going out!
i once won a race on my 18 by furling the jib, we had gone over 3 times but everyone else was either over or going in so all we had to do was go round.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:54 pm 
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I'd be interested in the input from the more experienced people here, too. I'm about to become the owner of a 20 and I'm keen to rig up some type of 'storm sail' setup to allow it to be single handed in heavier winds. Would it be better to let the halyard down and cleat it or to attach a short section of sturdy line to the top of the smaller sail? If that makes any sense . . . again, I'm not looking for maximum efficiency here, just a way to get out alone in a broader range of wind speeds.

Thanks, Duncan


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:45 am 
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I've never done this, so these are assumptions based on my experience with both the 18 and 20...

I'm fairly certain the foot of the H18 mainsail is longer than the foot of the H20 mainsail, so you would probably need to use the 18's boom. This may seem counter intuitive since the 20 is a bigger boat, but it has a higher aspect ratio mainsail, so taller mast but shorter boom. Also, the attachment of the 18's clew would not work with the 20 boom (no way to use a shackle on the 18 sail without modifying it).

You would not want to simply cleat off the halyard at the base of the mast. There would be way too much stretch in the line so you wouldn't be able to get sufficient downhaul tension to depower the sail. The idea of using a short pigtail (either wire rope or high-strength line) to connect the halyard ring to the mainsail is likely the best solution. I think you may have some difficulty getting the ring to engage/disengage the hook because it won't be stabilized by the sail. The ring may want to flop around.

You will likely want to add a section of aluminum comptip luff track to the location where the head of the "storm sail" ends up. Othewise, there may be issues with the head of the sail pulling out of the plastic track.

sm


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 1:18 pm 
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You're right I didn't think of the geometry being so different between the 18 and the 20. Upon closer inspection a mainsail from a H17 looks like a better candidate. Shorter along the boom than the 20. It did occur to me that the smaller sail might pull out of the track right at the top since it's not being held by the hook+ring. I was thinking of tying a rightish loop of 3/16" cord around the mast at the top of the smaller sail to keep it from pulling away from the mast and out of the track. What does everyone think of this idea?

Just thinking out loud, Duncan


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:12 pm 
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Location: Columbus, Indiana
I solo sail my 21SE often in light wind 10-15 mph.When the wind picks up too much for comfort,I return to shore and switch out my jib for a storm jib that Salty Dog made for me.Don told me that the fabric was "bomb proof".It is a lot smaller than my standard jib.
Perhaps you can look into a smaller jib sail for your boat.Honestly,I have only used that storm jib maybe a couple of dozen times,but I am happy to have it in my inventory.
Good Luck,Bill 404 21SE :D

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Bill 404 21SE
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:46 pm 
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I don't know anything about the H20, but what about putting some reef points in the main and forgetting about the H18 sail. You'd still have to address the issue of the head pulling out of the plastic luff track, but like srm said, you can replace the plastic with aluminum, or make the reef point so high that the head doesn't even make it to the comptip. With the right halyard, you should be able to get enough downhaul tension on the sail to flatten it out enough.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 3:19 pm 
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Use the same halyard, just put a pigtail in between the ring and the head of the sail to drop it down. Wire or dyneema would work easily enough.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 5:36 pm 
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I have heard of people adding reef points w grommets. But how do you adequately downhaul and outhaul? Those points are pretty heavily reinforced, I'd be nervous about attaching to some point in the middle of the sail. A smaller sail is an elegant solution, like the whirlwind hobie 20 HiWind. I was just trying to come up with a solution that didn't end with me spending $1000 on a slower sail!

Duncan


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:38 pm 
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Tie a line around the mast to hold the head in the luff track? How are you going to hoist the sail above the spreaders or the hounds? You'd have to hoist the sail, flip the boat on it's side, tie on your keeper line, and then flip the boat back up. Better to just install the aluminum luff track.

There's no reason a reef point couldn't be as strong as a standard fitting. It just has to be reinforced properly.

The problem with using a sail that's only a little bit smaller is that the shorter luff length means you're using an effectively stiffer mast section. So your downhaul adjustements have less effect. You pull in the downhaul, but the sail doesn't flatten. You'd be better off using the full size sail with the downhaul cranked than a sail that's a foot shorter but won't depower.

sm


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:22 pm 
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Thanks for your input sm, but I still want to be able to sail with less sail area. And I like the idea of having a smaller sail up more than reefing the main. I've got access to an H17 sail to have a play with. When I get a chance I'll take a stab at rigging it on the 20 and let everyone know how it works out.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:53 pm 
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srm wrote:
The problem with using a sail that's only a little bit smaller is that the shorter luff length means you're using an effectively stiffer mast section. So your downhaul adjustements have less effect. You pull in the downhaul, but the sail doesn't flatten. You'd be better off using the full size sail with the downhaul cranked than a sail that's a foot shorter but won't depower.


Two thoughts: not sure it would matter so long as it hooks at the top of the mast via a pigtail, and the tack is more or less in the same starting position.

And, you can pre-bend the mast aggressively to flatten the sail more. Does the H20 have adjustable spreaders? Raking them back more will also help.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:51 pm 
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Location: Storm Lake, IA
Karl Brogger wrote:
Does the H20 have adjustable spreaders?
yes.

The H20 is a beast and made to sail 2up!
If you want to single hand in high winds? Buy a H17.


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