Hobie Cat Forums

It is currently Thu Sep 18, 2014 12:48 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 27 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
 Post subject: Thanks too Matt and Guys
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:22 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 11:27 am
Posts: 539
Location: League City, TX
Sailing-a-Ray:

Ever get down our way say hi and visit the site sometime. Thanks Greg and Jacques also for helping the little guys out, that is how we get to be big guys. Didn't mean to interfere with your post. Yes Chris would love to share his knowledge also. I started my grand daughter at 6, she is 12 now. Going to give her some stick time this year. Trying to pass on the sport to the next generation. If ever in the South try to make it to Deep South. Best regatta in out area and 1200 lbs of crawfish aren't bad either.

Good sailing and good luck on Tiger.

Doug Snell
Hobie 17
Soon to be Nacra A2


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 2:17 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 6:05 pm
Posts: 33
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Sailing-a-Ray wrote:
Thanks Jacques. Yes, you are right -- I'm a flatlander! Our waves would having you east and west-coasters laughing! :-)

Last season we had a starts, on a crowded line, in 10-12 MPH of wind that did not go well. At this regatta we were probably 380 - 390 lbs. New crew. I would get good position on the line -- first row, clear to my leeward, fell off for speed, and hit the line running. Within about one to two minutes the fleet separates and I'm in the second group.

I've read an airticle by Frank Bethwaite about wind barriers for winds in the 10 MPH range, on a crowded line, and how the wind influences the first row (he says point initially). But this is counter to general opinion.

I think my first problem is that I may not be footing for speed. I'm also curious if there is something in that first one or two minutes where I need to be shifting gears to keep up -- say as I foot for speed, etc. Do we have the jib in too tight? Are we handling the jib wrong, like sheeting in too quick? Maybe I need to be doing something with weight position, like weight back a bit before the start, to get the hulls up so the wind will push them down, and then slide forward at the start?

I'm still not clear on setting the jib correctly during the run upwind. How does one tell?

So the question is really aimed at the first few minutes after the start. What can I work on come spring?

Interestingly, in winds 15-18 we do very well. Out point the Nacra F18 and good speed.


In my experience the golden rule on crowded start lines with the tiger is to get clear air. For starting I have used the philosophy - clear air, find a way to the favoured side of the course and rank starting at the favoured end of the start line last. The main reason is that any advantage of starting at the favoured end is usually blown if I don't get the gun start that I had hoped for (usually this is the case :( )

Also, I attach 2 sets of tell tails to my jib (1 just behind the other up the luff in 3 spots). In the light stuff I have found sailing in the groove of the first set just lifting (nearest the luff) but if the 2nd set break I am sailing too high. Makes a huge difference in that 5-7kt range deciding if I should foot off or go high.

Michael


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 9:44 am 
Offline
Hobie Approved Guru

Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 7:11 pm
Posts: 4611
Location: Detroit, MI
Chris Green posts here regularly under the name "flumpmaster", which is also his name on catsailor.com and sailinganarchy.com.

JB - the "fourth feature" is still open on the next HOTLINE - you mind if I take what you've got here and cook it down to an "interview" - sort of like what did with Darren Smith in the last issue?

Go get 'em at MWW this weekend.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: No Prob Bruce
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 9:55 am 
Offline
Hobie Tech / Moderator

Joined: Wed May 28, 2003 1:12 pm
Posts: 1008
No Worries Bruce - I have always kept up with how you're goin since the first days you purchased your Tiger and I was helping you with your initial set up (I think I had you call me over the weekend on my cell - that was cool)

As you can tell I don't get on and post much, but when I saw your question I had to jump in...I know its tough being out in the middle of the country without others to compare against - hopefully your area will 'turn on' with regard to Tigers...and soon you'll have a local fleet to help bring the levels up.

We will be starting our season this weekend in Mexico at the Midwinters West in San Felipe MEX. Hopefully it's warmer down there, its been in the 60's here....burrrrr. (haha - I bet you're laughing now!)

Anyway, if there is something else you're still unclear on, ask away!

Hey, Tiger Mike, Good luck with that strategy of getting to the favored side of the course without getting a good start (which you can only do from the proper side of the line) That will be a hard sell:-)....

Of course when we're sailing in large fleets and the line is only just slightly skewed, we'll give up the 'gun' start to be down the line a bit so as to almost assure ourselves of a clean start - however, if the line is really favored one side or the other - it is crucial to be there and fight - can't wimp out when the going gets tough....

Good'ay mate'

See ya at the F 18's in OZ 2007?

PS: Matt - thanks, we'll be trying in Felipe....its been since August since we've sailed together. I just did a training regatta with Pete Melvin last weekend - felt a little rusty, but we still won. That was a neat deal, and he's a great partner too (but I'll stick with Greg, he's not that bad either! ;-)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 8:51 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2003 7:17 am
Posts: 60
Location: Clear Lake, Iowa
Jacques,

Why that ain't cold! You'd hate to hear of our temperatures for this winter. But I can tell 'ya that global warming has been a very, very good for Iowa! Good luck in the Midwinters! You guys have way too much fun. And you get paid to do this? Awesome.

As far as selling a few more Tigers into Iowa -- let's do it. Hobie 20's rule in the Division here (when discussing the bigger boats); must be the need for power to heft Iowa beef & corn fed sailors around the marks. I have to go to CRAW (Catamaran Racing Association of Wisconsin) to get any respect. It sure would be easier to stay on the lake. Two Tigers moved into Minneapolis. One races and the other is for pleasure.

By the way, my weight positioning question comes up because an F18 driver told me that Nigel Pitt (F18) advised him to keep their weight back at the start. I'm sure you guys get misquoted all the time. The quote was, "Nigel was telling me to not stand on the transome, but rather be patient and move forward on the wire only as the boat changes gears."

This has been an extremely useful thread. Everything is clear. More questions? Another question and I might be accused of being a damn engineer. However, your comments about foils and their ability to lift ( :-) )has me thinking about low-drag wells for laminar flow foils and how do you guys REALLY reduce the rudder motion, yet steer the boat, and minimize the flow disruption across these foils :roll: ... but I think practice has been recommended and I'll take that good advice.

Boy have you ever been a help! Yes, Jacques, you did give me your cell number and across 1500+ miles you helped me to interpret those bloody French instructions! All three sets. Without your help I'd still be rigging that boat, anticipating the first sail. Your assistance has allowed me to now help one of the new Minneapolis boats to get rigged right. We've had nothing but fun on this boat. The support has been great!

I'll try hard to make the F18 nationals this year.

Bruce


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Cool Bruce/
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 11:13 am 
Offline
Hobie Tech / Moderator

Joined: Wed May 28, 2003 1:12 pm
Posts: 1008
Just got back from south of the border - Light winds, but we got off four races total and Greg and I were able to win them all! (hard races...tricky conditions)

Anyway, glad you are gaining something from this thread.

As for steering I think for sure when in light winds and super flat water a still helm is good. In chop you'll need to steer a bit more - and keep in mind upwind you are trying to sail to weather - this means in puffs you'll need to steer the boat (and keep the main tight) only sheet out once you've maxed the downhaul - keeping a tight main is super critical to upwind performance.

Once you get into winds were you are sheeting out in puffs (for us around 15 - 18 ) it is better to keep the helm still again and sheet more instead of trying to get higher upwind in the puffs -

Going back to weight placement, I'll stay with my statement - I can't imagine how that other method is better for any reason...that doesn't sound like something we do. At low speeds you want the sterns up, at higher speeds you want the bow up....so for me I'd say move back as you get wired and moving - but that's just me. Perhaps Greg can jump in on this thread....I may be missing something - of course I'm just the crew, and we all know that we don't know much.. :lol:


Last edited by Jbernier on Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 11:45 am 
Offline
Hobie Tech / Moderator

Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 3:16 pm
Posts: 301
Location: San Diego
Skipper sitting at the back of the tramp area before the start allows them more control of the rudders. I'll stay in this position until our last accelleration at the gun where I'll immediately move forward (light wind) or trap out to properly balance the boat heal and balance (front to back).

_________________
Greg Thomas
Hobie Factory Team


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 12:04 pm 
Offline
Hobie Tech / Moderator

Joined: Wed May 28, 2003 1:12 pm
Posts: 1008
See, I told you I didn't know what I was talking about. :wink:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 12:12 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2003 7:17 am
Posts: 60
Location: Clear Lake, Iowa
Congratulations on the win!

Crew? Heck all I know is that nothing goes well until the right crew gets on board. So nothing but respect to the crew.

Greg, you said "Skipper sitting at the back of the tramp area before the start allows them more control of the rudders." Why? Physically he has more control or is there something hydrodynamically going on that gives the rudders more authority or less drag?

Bruce


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 12:52 pm 
Offline
Hobie Tech / Moderator

Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 3:16 pm
Posts: 301
Location: San Diego
Quote:
Greg, you said "Skipper sitting at the back of the tramp area before the start allows them more control of the rudders." Why? Physically he has more control or is there something hydrodynamically going on that gives the rudders more authority or less drag?


2 things: Most importantly you have a better angle to turn the rudders quickly and sharply (try doing that sitting at the front crossbar). Also, with more weight in the back of the boat, more of the rudder is in the water giving more bite to the rudder when steering.

_________________
Greg Thomas
Hobie Factory Team


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Jacques
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 9:55 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2004 7:18 pm
Posts: 73
Location: League City, Texas, USA
mmiller wrote:
Just in case anyone wonders who Jacques is...Jacques Bernier is one of our Hobie in-house gurus. He sails with Greg Thomas (also Hobie staff).

Just for those who may not know... Greg and Jacques are the current US Multihull / Hobie Alter Cup Champions, North American F18 Champions, 2nd at the Tiger Worlds in Singapore and first Americans at the last Tiger Worlds in Santa Barbara (they were fouled and lost first or second). 4 time Tiger North American champions. Former Hobie 20 North American Champions among others...Both are heavily experienced on Tornado. Jacques was a North American Champion. Both were on the US sailing team on Tornado.

They know their stuff.


And I don't. Me and my comprade Dave McDaniel rated a lowly 79th at the Tiger worlds. Anything we know about the Tiger was picked up from Tomko and we are still very much beginers on this boat but really enjoying it. Jaques certainly does not need any advice from me.

Snell is a royal pest . He seems to haunt every catamaran sailing forum in the world, including our local site here in Texas.

Chris.

_________________
2008 Hobie Tiger


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 4:40 pm 
Offline
Hobie Tech / Moderator

Joined: Wed May 28, 2003 1:12 pm
Posts: 1008
If people are going to Texas for F 18's maybe something in this thread will be of use - figured I'd bring it back to the top. I had a couple calls recently about tuning on Tigers...and there are some nuggets in this thread to read through.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 27 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group