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 Post subject: Tiger helm
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:48 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:15 am
Posts: 88
Location: Kaneohe, Hawaii
Ok all you armchair Tiger sailors and actual Tiger sailors, I've got a question about helm.
Upwind I have just a very slight bit of weather helm, not much and sometimes very close to neutral.
With the kite up I get lee helm, not much in lighter air but as soon as we are single trapped she gets pretty sketchy and I need to hang on cause she will dart down quickly and could send a crew around the front (hasn't happened yet). I have both boards up half way.
Do I move weight forward or back? Pull up boards higher? Adjust rudder rake back just a hair?
And, does the newer flatter cut spinnakers change the helm at all?
Any feedback would be great,
Thanks,
Dan


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 Post subject: Re: Tiger helm
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 8:14 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2010 12:31 am
Posts: 75
Location: Netherlands Europe
How much rake do you have ???

I would try fore stay one pinhole back

MAST RAKE
The mast rake using the trapeze measurement method (taking the trapeze to the
forstay bridle fitting and then swinging it aft to a point on the rear deck) . The range is
somewhere between the from of the inspection hatch and 10 cm down the transom. For
light winds further forward and heavier wind more aft. The crew weight is also a factor
and for light crews further aft and heavier crews generally a little forward.

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 Post subject: Re: Tiger helm
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:50 am 
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Joined: Wed May 28, 2003 1:12 pm
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More rudder rake back would help - but add to the weather helm feel 'upwind'.
If you are running the original rudders you might consider upgrading to the 2007 and later design - it requires a two piece gudgeon and new rudders - but makes the helm much nicer overall.

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 Post subject: Re: Tiger helm
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:14 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:15 am
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Location: Kaneohe, Hawaii
I started sailing the boat last summer with the rake at 10cm down the transom and have since moved to 4cm down the transom. She feels pretty good there with my crew weight.
I do have the new rudders on this boat and did try raking them back but the upwind sailing was way worse so I moved the rudders back to a nice very slight helm upwind. I don't have heavy lee helm downwind in light air but I don't sail in light air that often. Could it be the daggers are up to far for downwind?
I currently raise them up 21" for downwind.
Thanks,
Dan in Hawaii


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 Post subject: Re: Tiger helm
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:58 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 28, 2003 1:12 pm
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Just play with adjustments - I'd say you probably need to rake the mast back further - boards half way up is pretty standard - we leave them further down in lighter winds - pull them up further in strong breeze.

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 Post subject: Re: Tiger helm
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:16 pm 
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Location: Kaneohe, Hawaii
We'll see what happens tomorrow out on the water. I moved the rake from 10cm to 14cm down the transom. It just happens to be 1 hole in the forestay adjuster plate. I was already pointing somewhere between 5-10 degrees higher than the Hobie 20 fleet here.


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 Post subject: Re: Tiger helm
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 12:34 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:15 am
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Location: Kaneohe, Hawaii
Ok so the mast is raked far back and now I'm block to block on the jib (could move up the tack).
She has more weather helm upwind and slightly less lee helm downwind. I did notice a rooster tail off my starboard rudder when it was my weather rudder (didn't matter if upwind or downwind). Will double check alignment again tomorrow. Also noticed lots of air pockets appearing on the leading edge of the rudders (gelcoat pops off with air pocket behind), will dremel out and fill with gelcoat. Looks like I've got 4-5 spots per rudder.


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 Post subject: Re: Tiger helm
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:37 am 
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Sounds like your alignment isn't adjusted - you want there to be equal spray from both sides of the windward rudder - we always adjust this on the water by looking at the flow coming off the rudder with the windward hull slightly in the air - adjust it out if there is more spray on the outside edge of the rudder - and the adjust it in if the spray is coming up the inside edge of the rudder.

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 Post subject: Re: Tiger helm
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:34 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:15 am
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Location: Kaneohe, Hawaii
Thanks for all your help! can't wait to get out on Thursday and try out the boat with the rudders aligned. Can't believe I missed that, I'm the guy who walks around his boat with a tape measure, Loos gauge and a sharpy.
Now that I have the boat relatively set up for my conditions its time to get the regular crew lined up and practise, practice, practise.


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 Post subject: Re: Tiger helm
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:23 am 
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Joined: Wed May 28, 2003 1:12 pm
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The biggest help is sailing, but also lining up against another F18 - having 2 boats or more training will speed up your learning process - sailing around alone is okay for something like boat handling, but for speed tuning (which is I think the most important aspect of cat racing next to your starting technique) you need another team....
Time on the water is key - get sailing, the little things are just that - they all add up - but not too much, the most important things are still the big ones!

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Jacques Bernier
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 Post subject: Re: Tiger helm
PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 10:25 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:15 am
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Location: Kaneohe, Hawaii
Lined up with the other Tiger. We sailed a windward, leeward course for 3 hours. WOW! The boat was flying around the course!
Now massive weather helm upwind and no massive lee helm downwind.
Hindsight: I think the whole problem was the alignment of the rudders.
Thanks all for the input.


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 Post subject: Re: Tiger helm
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2013 5:07 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:15 am
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Location: Kaneohe, Hawaii
OK. Helm seems OK in light to medium winds now.
Even sailing downwind with the kite up the helm isn't bad.
The only time I have lee helm is when I'm reaching with the kite up and one crew is on the wire. I still have lots of lee helm.
Anyone?


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 Post subject: Re: Tiger helm
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 9:01 am 
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Joined: Wed May 28, 2003 1:12 pm
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Sounds like you're pretty well dialed now - you can't expect the boat to be balanced when reaching and the kite up - it's more sail area in front of your foils and it will give you that feeling.... sounds like you're there.For sailing upwind without the kite - and then 'Downwind' with the kite - your balance sounds about right... boats don't reach well with kites up, that's a very rare situation, and most of the time reaching without it would be the norm... the kites are really for going downwind angles.

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 Post subject: Re: Tiger helm
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 5:04 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:15 am
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Location: Kaneohe, Hawaii
I was out last night in 7-9mph winds singlehanding on a beer can race and did a little experimenting. I've figured out the helm issue now and here is what I've found out.
If I'm to far back on the boat with the chute up the stern drags and the rudder angle is changed (kicked under) enough to give me lee helm. when I moved my weight foreward to the shrouds the boat was more flat fore and aft and the rudder angle was correct, I had no lee helm when the boat sails flat.
I was able to reach w/o any lee helm.

JB you are right I'd have a much shorter learning curve if there were more similar boats to tune and race with.


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 Post subject: Re: Tiger helm
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 10:04 am 
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Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 10:46 am
Posts: 1089
Location: eureka,california
Dray

Glad you are getting the boat sorted out. Should have known to tell you to keep the boat flat. ( slipped my mind ) Haven't been out much lately waiting on my new ride but did do an epic Pitchpole on the Wildcat last weekend while racing for first in a race.

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