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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:39 pm 
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The H16 can not be competitive for many because of the avg combined weight of skipper and crew. ALL A H16 racers will tell you that. The boat does not meet the needs of heavier crews. Why do you think they made the H18 and H20 anyway?

Plus, what's wrong with bringing a newer one design into this century. Frankly, my experience as a 6'1, 210lb man with a 5'10,150lb wife on a H16 sucks.
Dude, H16 owns a place in history and it should be built for many more years. But it is not the be all end all of one designs. Give me a break.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:57 pm 
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Sorry, we've strayed a bit off-topic (I'm as guilty as anyone). I think we need to go back to the essence of the original post:

tiger850 wrote:
I want to race my 2008 Tiger as a One Design. I want to race my Tiger against other Tigers, sailor to sailor. Right now it would appear I have to go to Europe to do so as there doesn’t seem to be venues here. I hope HCA will take the leadership position and resurrect the class and have a program like there is for the Hobie 17, 18 and 20s. What I will do is support any event that does have a “real” one design format that would accept the Tiger. I appreciate HCA supporting One Design sailing and have been an avid member of the organization for years. Next year at the Seattle NOOD, I will again register my boat as a Hobie Tiger One Design not a F18. If no other Tiger wants to join me, I will withdraw. I’m over with trying to compete on a field that is in no way level, it just isn’t fun anymore.

He doesn't want a new boat. He wants to race his current one as one-design (OD).

Before, I go further, please understand I am not a Tiger fanboy or apologist. I have some platform upgrade plans of my own that don't involve one. In my below statements, I'm simply trying to make the case that bringing the Tiger back to an active one-design class might not be as hard as it sounds.

First off, there is still officially a OD class. Rules are clearly specified by the HCA (Link here) and were, in fact, recently updated. I briefly skimmed through them and for anyone that's read the H16 or H18 requirements, they should look familiar. In general if it's Hobie supplied its golden, otherwise, your out.

As far as I know, changes to the Tiger platform more-or-less stopped when the Wildcat was released. I think that was roughly 2009 - at least in N America. I am not all-knowing, but am not aware of any design or component changes since then. That has essentially frozen the design. This means that all the existing boats that are out there can be brought up to a certain level without fear of further significant movement.

So, let's look at what's changed: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the hulls, foils, beams, mast, and spin pole are all the same. That leaves sails and rigging. From a rigging standpoint, the change from roller furling to self-tacking was one of the more significant ones (although I'm not sure how much of a performance improvement that was as opposed to convenience). Another was the spin sheet block position (for newer flat-cut spins). All told, the sails seem to me to be the biggest change over the years. Sail area has remained constant, but the distribution of that area has changed.

So, if you get an older boat that has not been upgraded already, you'd need to spend some money and make some changes. Looking at the relative costs, I'd bet that sails would account for a very large percentage of that cost. But aren't relatively new sails already a basic requirement to be competitive, regardless of class? Since most of the significant changes in this design were focused around the sails, wouldn't a new set (which you'd need to get anyway) fix 95% of the competitive issues between the various Tiger iterations?

I think the answer is (or should be) yes. But, if Hobie (or the market) decides its not worth it, then I go back to my previous assertion that it will be relegated to the fate of the many, many older boats that have come and gone before it, including my beloved H18: It's now a great recreational and learning boat, and that's all it will ever be. (and I'm OK with that! :) )

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 6:19 pm 
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I stand corrected on the modifications. There were some foil modifications later in the design cycle, Chekc about halfway down the page at this link.

Whole article is an interesting read.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:19 pm 
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Who can answer these questions (correctly) and make a solvent case for the Tiger as the next, OD class

is the Tiger still in production?
how many Tiger were sold, have been, and/or are in the USA today?

Don't get me wrong, like xanderwess said, more power to ya, hope you can get out there and make it happen (while you can) with the Tiger but...
14's, 17's, 18's & 20's, and oh ya 21's are all out of production
no new OD class there either

+1 on the Pearl

It would be fun to take a raid (reaching) boat and figure out how to run windward/leewards with it...oh wait, that's already been done with the King of the reaching boats, the Hobie 16, sorry...how quickly we forget.

I think the roller furling spinnaker can push the average Joe-six-pack racer over the edge and find out you really can race a boat with three sails, even on an inland lake, and keep it affordable. Rollin' it up, as opposed to hoisting and dousing, has to be WAY easier on the sail.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 10:41 am 
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I want to thank everyone for their comments. Yes there has been some changes to the boat from the first Tiger (2002) I owned. The 2008 has some changes that either improved the performance in a minor way but the hulls were the same. Bow tang position, rudder shape and gudgeons etc. The tramps were changed to make it easier to manufacture the boat. I could see where the 2002 "slot" for the tramp could be tough. BUT, things like a self tacker and the snuffer that did not come on the 2002 was a welcome relief and jumped at by all the boats in the NW. It is still a ISAf OD as indicated in the posting above. My 2002 boat came with the yellow ST sail so I missed the pin top era, I did go to the STX sail some time after they came out but I needed a new sail at the time. Spinnakers changed somewhat but they have to replaced every so often as well as sheets (tappered were not class legal at 2005 Worlds, but are now). Yes there has been evolutionary changes but nothing like mast cross-section or hull shape which is not something that wears out and has to be updated anyway. So I'm going to ask a possibly simplier question. There are a lot of Tigers in the US that are hopefully not rotting away on some beach. And yes they have been changed to chase the F18, but other than sail manufacurer, I'm at a loss as to what modifications would make them not class legal. So the bottom line is if a HCA North Americans could be persuaded to include the Tiger ISAF OD, how many would go??


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:15 pm 
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You may get your wish. It looks like the Tiger will be included in the 2013 North Americans in TX. Big deal if so and what gets raced as far as "one Idesign"?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:11 pm 
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wscotterwin wrote:
You may get your wish. It looks like the Tiger will be included in the 2013 North Americans in TX. Big deal if so and what gets raced as far as "one Idesign"?
The Hobie Tiger is an ISAF International Class and there's a world championship scheduled for this summer.

You can't call it a "Hobie Tiger North Americans" without using the class rules for the Hobie Tiger. The NOR/SIs cannot change or delete individual class rules unless there's a provision to do so in the class rules (RRS 87) - and there isn't in the Tiger class rules.

The Tiger owners can petition the IHCA to change the class rules, but the process is time-consuming and it probably won't happen before the Galveston event.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:01 pm 
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In my opinion, the formula classes do well to keep the costs down, they do not create an arms race in F18's. The tigers that show up to local stuff still do plenty well, if your tiger is in good enough shape to be competitive at a NA OD race, its plenty fast locally. Buying OEM parts is always going to be more expensive, formula classes let you buy anyone's parts and keep manufactures competitive in pricing.

There have been a couple OD spin boats that have died over the years. I was in the Nacra 20 class that has died for most of the same reasons the Tiger OD would suffer. I have since switched to a formula 20 class and have been very happy with much lower parts prices.

The week-end warrior's in my area are sailing Vipers, A-cats and F18s. There is no one I know wanting a de-tuned F18 OD boat to race.

Also, Hobie in the USA is no longer set-up to fully support racing that I have seen. There is no store that I know of that I could get any parts off the shelf for a Tiger or Wildcat in the SE. On the other hand AHPC has had a truck attend several races with any part you could possibly need or your C2 or Viper. Nacra parts are a phone call away and can be picked up at 2 locations within 100 miles of my normal sailing areas.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 5:07 pm 
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Bacho wrote:
Also, Hobie in the USA is no longer set-up to fully support racing that I have seen. There is no store that I know of that I could get any parts off the shelf for a Tiger or Wildcat in the SE. On the other hand AHPC has had a truck attend several races with any part you could possibly need or your C2 or Viper. Nacra parts are a phone call away and can be picked up at 2 locations within 100 miles of my normal sailing areas.


The Hobie Class Association supports the racing side of things and when there is a Worlds, Hobie Factories handle boats and support at World level events. The Factory had a parts supply and staff at the F18 Worlds this summer.

Hobie has hundreds of dealers and maybe even some of the same guys you likely refer to in your area are Hobie dealers. If they don't stock a part, they have access to all of the parts that are currently built by the factory... in as little as one day direct from the USA factory... not clear over in Australia or Europe. We stock Tiger and Wild Cat parts in the US. We prefer our dealers to be stocking and selling boats and parts from a fixed location... not just selling from out of a trailer. But on the other hand... you will find a Hobie dealer at many of the major events with a parts supply available.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:24 pm 
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mmiller wrote:
But on the other hand... you will find a Hobie dealer at many of the major events with a parts supply available.

I can't think of a major event that hasn't had at least one well stocked dealer on site. Actually most of the bigger events have 1-3 dealers on site.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:52 pm 
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I'm a low budget Cat sailor who resently bought a Tiger 04.
I'm doing exactly what Xander says, build it and they will come. We now have two Tigers and a WildCat with another Tiger on the way. Plus a few Hobie 20's that now have squaretop mains and one even has a chute. We have a blast sailing around playing chase down the leader and whoever is leading gets to choose the course and everyone else chases.
Yes, if an arms race starts when we get more Tigers then I'll pick up a nice set of Ullman sails and maybe put on a WildCat rudder system on the Tiger but right now the main thing for me is to get more people out on a boat with a chute and have fun (building the fleet).
No doubt the Hobie Cat company builds the best quality beach cats out there but, I'm tired of paying top dollar for replacement parts and like a previous post said a used Tiger is one of the best deals out there!
That said I'm not on a Hobie Tiger class boat and may never again go factory OD class rules. But will no doubt again by a used Hobie of some sort next time I'm in the market.
BTW I have a great Hobie 20 that does meet class rules for sale.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 2:03 pm 
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Well, again I want to thank everyone for the comments. I'm pleased to see there is some interest. I'm not going to add any more of my comments to this thread as I was amused by some of the statements by folks that haven't a clue as to what I was saying and are sipmly not grounded in the reality of OD racing. I just purchased a 2013 H16 as it the most sailor oriented mulithull class there is. It is a challenge to sail well and competition wise you can't beat it. I fell on the floor with laughter over the comment about an average sailor "buying" skill and the F18 not being a development class. DUH!!! A friend just bought the brand new Wildcat boards so he could compete at the same level as another Wildcat with the new boards. AND, I believe since the rules changed there are no longer boards for the C2 available. Following this person's logic, he would say a 60's era F1 race car would be competetive today on the F1 circuit. No, they relagated to collectors or vintage racing. I'm not ready to put my Tiger on display in a museum yet. My attention will be to get as many Tigers to the NAs as possible and sail boat for boat against them. As far as the gentleman that brought a that Tiger to Hawaii, I know the boat and hope you have fun with it. Someday when you are past the initial fun sailing stage and really want to race each other you'll have to go to a handicap system and I believe you will then appreciate One Design racing.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:15 pm 
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Welcome to the Hobie 16 Class.Sounds like you in it for all the right reasons.Good competitive O.D. racing.Look forward to tunning up with you.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:12 pm 
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Tiger850, ditto, welcome to the H16 Fleet. If you are anywhere within a reasonable drive, or even if it's unreasonable, you ought to consider bringing that new boat down to Mid Winter's East. OD racing at its best.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:03 pm 
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Anyone want an OD tiger call me.

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