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 Post subject: Question??????
PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 4:13 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2003 7:15 pm
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Location: Liverpool, NY
New H16's come with a dyneema jib halyard (LIROS-Magic D-Pro 5mm) The manufacturer of this line recommends a cover for use with a cleat.

Is it Class legal to put a cover over this line where it meets the adjustable jib halyard cleat.

AND...if not Class legal, why is this nice high tech line original equipment on a new boat if it will not hold in the cleat???

Jus wanna know.....


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 Post subject: Re: Question??????
PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 4:36 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:45 pm
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Location: Northfield Minnesota
I don't see anything in the rules that would prevent splicing a cover on.

If you're using the cam cleat and the horn cleat that should definetly hold it. Might want a smaller metal jaw cleat though. I know dyneema/spectra is slippery stuff though.


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 Post subject: Re: Question??????
PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 5:11 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 4:43 pm
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Location: Clear Lake, Iowa
I absolutely hate that line. I'm working to replace mine this week before Canada. I'd rather have a little stretch than sooo much slippage.

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Hobie Fleet 10
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 Post subject: Re: Question??????
PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 5:29 pm 
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Location: Oceanside, California
"CycloneCat"

Do you have the added camatic cleat to hold the load when adjusting the jib halyard. I agree... slippery, but not a problem with the jib cleat setup approved several years ago. In fact... it is WAY better. No slip when untying from the horn cleat and by placing a mark or two on the line, it is super easy to adjust accurately and doesn't stretch. Never heard of the line having a wear problem. At Worlds it seems to hold up very well and that represents a hard years worth of racing and sailing for most boats.

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 Post subject: Re: Question??????
PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 5:42 pm 
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Location: Clear Lake, Iowa
Let's see. My cam is above the horn...I"m guessing 3-4". Jim Sohn installed it, so I'm hoping it's correct. We sailed in some 20+wind in May and when I got to shore after 4 races, I could pull the line forward from the mast about 6" (think of a crescent shape) When I left I could only pull about 1 - 2". I sail a pretty tight rig. Jim thinks I'm not getting a good enough wrap on the horn...but I doubt that.

I know others in our Division have changed that halyard out with some different line from APS...but I don't know what line yet.

I agree the line appears to hold up well....I just think it's slipping...but I could be wrong. I will mark the line and see what happens...that's a good idea.

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 Post subject: Re: Question??????
PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 6:08 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2003 7:15 pm
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Location: Liverpool, NY
If I'm sailing 4 races in 20+ I'm leavin the beach with that much slack in the jib halyard. (and prolly hittin 400mg of motrin before pushing off :lol:)

I had a similar line as original equip on this boat (06) lime green. hated it at first, but after it broke in it was the best jib halyard I ever had. It got kinda fuzzy after a while and I could sail with slack between the cam cleat and the horn and it would NOT slip.

I have one of the new halyards (yellow) I like the stretch characteristics of the line. Maybe it will break in like my old one.


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 Post subject: Re: Question??????
PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 7:19 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 7:11 pm
Posts: 4575
Location: Detroit, MI
Tom Korz wrote:
New H16's come with a dyneema jib halyard (LIROS-Magic D-Pro 5mm) The manufacturer of this line recommends a cover for use with a cleat.

Is it Class legal to put a cover over this line where it meets the adjustable jib halyard cleat.

AND...if not Class legal, why is this nice high tech line original equipment on a new boat if it will not hold in the cleat???

Jus wanna know.....


The IHCA General Class Rules state:
Quote:
16.2 Sheets and lines:
a) Any diameter and quality of sheets and lines
may be used unless prescribed otherwise in
these rules or in the individual boat class rules.
b) Any sheet or lines made in whole or part of
wire are prohibited, except as supplied by the
HOBIE CAT CO. Sheets and lines, with the exception
of the spinnaker halyard systems, are
not permitted to be tapered unless allowed in
the individual boat Class Rules.


There is nothing in the 16 Class Rules that changes this.

Since a "tapered" halyard is one in which a cover has been removed to reduce windage / friction, this is merely the reverse - a cover is being added to improve friction. Therefore, I would consider adding a cover on the jib halyard in the cleat area not class legal.

However, I am not the authority on this - the IHCA Rules Committee is. Send the question to Erik Olsen and see what the commitee says.

I have the yellow line as well and other than having the yellow dye get all over the jib leech, I'm satisfied with it. It has fuzzed up a bit, however - I never trust the cam cleat to hold it while sailing. It gets wrapped around the horn, figure-8'ed, then three locking loops on the horns. It doesn't slip.


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 Post subject: Re: Question??????
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 8:19 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 4:43 pm
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Location: Clear Lake, Iowa
My line is BLUE...not yellow. I'm calling Mr. Sohn to find out why! :evil: Ha! I wonder what color his line is? Wouldn't that be interesting....no wonder he has 4 bullets out of 5 regattas! :lol:

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Hobie Fleet 10
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 Post subject: Re: Question??????
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 3:09 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:45 pm
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Location: Northfield Minnesota
I wouldn't worry about it Todd, Dyneema comes in about a dozen different colors.


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 Post subject: Re: Question??????
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 3:17 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2003 4:40 am
Posts: 41
Tom
I have been seeing some interesting stuff so I sent an inquiry to Erik Olsen about your question. The official reply is that this is definitely NOT legal.

However Erik did suggest we have a group discussion on these issues in Kingston and if this was something the sailors wanted, the rules committee would consider a rule change proposal on this.

Rich


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 Post subject: Re: Question??????
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 3:30 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 4:43 pm
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Location: Clear Lake, Iowa
Sohn's line is yellow, but I'm pretty sure it's the same thing I have...like Karl said...just a different color. After Kingston, I'll have a much better basis to claim I don't know how to string a horn cleat. :roll:

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Hobie Fleet 10
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 Post subject: Re: Question??????
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 3:33 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
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Location: Oceanside, California
We have used both the blue and the yellow in new boat production.

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Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA


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 Post subject: Re: Question??????
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:14 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2006 5:13 pm
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Rich McVeigh wrote:
Tom
I have been seeing some interesting stuff so I sent an inquiry to Erik Olsen about your question. The official reply is that this is definitely NOT legal.

However Erik did suggest we have a group discussion on these issues in Kingston and if this was something the sailors wanted, the rules committee would consider a rule change proposal on this.

Rich


We should have a class meeting in Kingston anyway. I'm sure there are other things that should be discussed as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Question??????
PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:18 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 4:43 pm
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Location: Clear Lake, Iowa
After Kingston I now know my Dynema line slips. I also know the turning block and cam cleat are located incorrectly on my mast....I'll talk with Sohn about getting that fixed! Ha! My turning block is directly above in the center of the mast, but the cam cleat is off to the side and above the black line. This angle prevents the cam cleat from holding the line. ie: I was going downwind and pulled slack through the line to pull my mast forward...by the time I got to the gate the 8-12" of slack was gone.
Now, is it slipping through the horn? Well, by Wednesday, I abandoned the use of the Cam Cleat and subsequent horn cleat bellow it and just went with the horn cleat above the bottom turning block in the center of the mast. After doing this I determined it DID NOT slip. But somehow that angle issue definitely causes it to slip...even at the horn bellow the cam.

Funny thing: Mark Modderman loves the Dynema Line and IMO he really knows what he's talking about. Me: I'm going to re-do the location of the turning block and cam cleat and replace the Dynema with something less slick.

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Todd Wilson
Hobie Fleet 10
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"Work Hard, Play Hard, Respect People & Love your Family"


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