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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 3:18 pm 
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Hobie Approved Guru

Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 7:11 pm
Posts: 4623
Location: Detroit, MI
Quote:
That is until an American citizen gets shocked by a Tiger mast. Then litigation will start all over again.


As has been said before, the Tiger is manufactured by Hobie Cat Europe, an entirely separate company from Hobie Cat USA. I'm sure the reciprocal indemnification from product liability was worked out long before the Tiger was distributed by HC USA.

On your other pont (Hobie Class excluding you), you couldn't be further from the truth. All we did was take our name back. Too many organizations around the country used the Hobie Fleet and Division structure to promote cat sailing in general.

You can't call yourself Hobie Class Division 6 if you promote multi-brand catamaran sailing. Call yourself what you really are - a regional catamaran sailing association, like CRAM, CRAW, CRAC, NEMSA, etc.

We're not excluding anybody - you've excluded yourself.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 10:40 pm 
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Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 9:35 pm
Posts: 82
Location: Northern Texas
Quote:
As has been said before, the Tiger is manufactured by Hobie Cat Europe, an entirely separate company from Hobie Cat USA.


You are right, but this still does not release the liability of the manufacturer, whether it be in Europe or USA, and the distributor. Especially if that distributor was a prior manufacturer with known safety defects in their product that is now distributing another known product with a safety defect. Hopefully for everyone's sake we will never have to see if this is indeed the case. It is kind of funny though that we hear a few stories about all aluminum masts contacting power lines and their results, but we never hear about comptips actually coming into contact with power lines. Are we sure the comptip actually works?

Quote:
All we did was take our name back.


And we have been told that more is going to happen by powers higher up in the Hobie organization than you (I have email proof).

Quote:
Too many organizations around the country used the Hobie Fleet and Division structure to promote cat sailing in general.


I agree with you completely. It was funny to see that our commodore didn't even own a Hobie. I wonder sometimes if he ever did. I know that I felt this was wrong. :evil: Regardless, we in Division 6 agreed to stop using the Hobie name and continue to promote cat sailing. I can't speak for all of the fleet or division members, but over the years we have seen a serious decline in Hobie racing. We have all read stories about regattas in the 70s and early 80s where more than a hundred boats would race. Now you are lucky to get 30 boats or even make class.

It is ironic that Hobie will easily advertise how the Tiger wins all of these huge open class races (Round Texel, F18 Worlds, etc.), yet they won't help us promote the Hobie product in the smaller local regattas. Instead of supporting our opportunity to whip up on some of Hobie's manufacturing competition where we can say, "You should have bought a Hobie.", they would much rather us race against only Hobies. How are we to promote your product when it is the only one in competition? Believe it or not, it is open class racing that keeps your boats selling. I can't tell you how many times I have been told to by an Inter 20 only to see it whipped by a Tiger! Now that is what I call product promotion! We promote the Hobie product more than ANY Hobie class racing regatta could.

Now that the original subject has been completely changed, can we move on? :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 1:05 pm 
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Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2004 1:36 pm
Posts: 302
Location: San Diego, CA
Again... Your missing the point!! And compairing apples to oranges with the tiger and open class racing...

It has NEVER ever been said that you shouldn't race your Hobiet 1x, Tiger, or 20 in an open class regatta... What has been said and determined by the Hobie Cat class association is that "HOBIE SANCTIONED POINTS REGATTAS" are and should be for Hobie Cats only.

That is the whole purpose for these points regatta's in the first place. Instead of bad mouthing the HCA for making this decision, if you want to promote open class regatta's then help organise one. Otherwise, may I recomend you spending your energy getting more people that own Hobie Cats to come to regattas?

Brent

H-16 S# 13566


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 2:37 pm 
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Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 9:35 pm
Posts: 82
Location: Northern Texas
Quote:
Again... Your missing the point!!
by bphendri12

Quote:
I don't think that was his point, dood.
by JamieZX

I believe it has already been determined that it is you that has missed the point. In one of your earlier posts, you claimed that you do not like to wear your life jacket because you are already wearing flotation, but the rules say you have to.

Quote:
I hate wearing a life jacket under my trap harness. I'm allready wearing a wet suit that is bouyant. Why can't I just strap it to the trampoline?! This is a stupid rule, and I just want to see someone protest me or the race comittee throw me out!


If you would only READ the rules and PAY ATTENTION, like you are obviously not doing, then you would know that you don't have to wear the lifejacket.

Quote:
8. Safety Equipment

8.1 Each person on board shall carry a lifesaving device or Personal Flotation Device (PFD) approved by their country's national authority or by the national authority having jurisdiction. The IHCA strongly recommends that life jackets or PFDs be worn at all times.


Furthermore, you obviously did not visit the website I stated earlier. If you would have visited it you would have seen that we, including I, organize all kinds of open class regattas. We also assist greatly in one of the newest up and coming distance regattas, The Great Texas Catamaran Race.

[/quote]Otherwise, may I recomend you spending your energy getting more people that own Hobie Cats to come to regattas?[quote]

I recommend that all people, not just the ones with Hobies (or even sailboats) attend regattas. Some of the best people to introduce to sailing are ones that have never tried it before. Unlike you, I want everyone to sail and everyone to be included. Not just Hobie owners like you state.

Finally, I would like to congratulate you on your win. I completely overlooked the fact that you accomplished this.

Now I have an offshore distance race in "A" class that I must attend.

Goodbye


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 4:08 pm 
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Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2004 1:36 pm
Posts: 302
Location: San Diego, CA
[quote]If you would only READ the rules and PAY ATTENTION, like you are obviously not doing, then you would know that you don't have to wear the lifejacket.

Quote:
8. Safety Equipment

8.1 Each person on board shall carry a lifesaving device or Personal Flotation Device (PFD) approved by their country's national authority or by the national authority having jurisdiction. The IHCA strongly recommends that life jackets or PFDs be worn at all times.


I have NEVER been to regatta where the REQUIREMENT to wear a PFD was not in the sailing instructions.

And yes I did go to your web site, the page consistantly stoped being displayed half way through, and I have NO problem with promoting open class catamaran racing. My statements reflected Hobie Class rules, and Hobie fleet events ONLY! I feel that one of the biggest strenghts of owning a Hobie Cat, is our strong class structures and that allowing non Hobie Cat owners to race in our points regatta's is a libabilty not an asset to our fleets.. Not to mention the Hobie Cat itself looses a selling point in itself, and that is our strong ONE DESIGN fleet racing.


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 Post subject: hobie membershoip
PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 10:16 pm 
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Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2003 2:54 pm
Posts: 23
Location: Durham, NC
Since there is a discussion of misunderstood class rules, I would like to point one out

ARTICLE IV. -MEMBERSHIP
Section 1. Qualifications: Membership shall be open to all persons interested in the sport of Hobie Cat sailing. No person shall be denied the right to membership or participation in any event within the jurisdiction of the HCA or to manage or otherwise be involved in the participation of such event, or having so participated shall suffer any penalty for having participated, on the grounds of race, color, religion, age, sex, sexual preference or national origin. This section shall not prevent the conduct of separate events for men and women and special populations.

As you can see, you don't have to own or race a hobie or any kind of catamaran or sailboat in order to be a member of hca.
Owning another brand of catamaran or hobie or even a jetski does not exclude you from membership in hca.
You only have to pay your membership fee to be "a member in good standing".

Section 3. Privileges of Membership
a. Members in good standing status are also such members of the International Hobie Class Association.
b. A member in good standing status is entitled to one vote within the general membership-voting format.
c. Only members in good standing status are entitled to participate in any sailing events sanctioned by the HCA and/or the IHCA as well as skipper their boat in such events.
d. Only members in good standing status are entitled to earn qualifying points toward participation in North American and World Championship events.
e. Only members in good standing status are eligible to introduce motions, serve on HCA committees, be a member of the Board of Directors or to serve as an Association, Fleet or Division officer.
Members in good standing (PAID UP) are allowed to vote, race in hca events, serve on hcs committees, be a member of the Board of Directors

So basically, anybody with the money can join hca and run for office.

Can anybody explain how someone who doesn't race a hobie or at least own one can possibly represent hobie racers?


About Division 9.
Officially, there are twelve Fleets.
Hobie Fleets 97, 170, and 191 are inactive.
Fleets 12, 53, 92, and 174 have one "member".
The members of Division 9 NEVER succumbed to the new participation rules. http://www.hobiediv9.org/schedule.htm

Now we have the Eastern Multihull Sailing Association.
http://www.emsa-sailing.org./
The same people who ran Division 9 are running the regattas for EMSA.


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 Post subject: Comptip
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 7:06 pm 
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Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2003 7:14 pm
Posts: 455
Location: West MI
John I have a 89 Hobie 18 Worlds boat the came with a Comptip. Before that I had a 77 H 16 and a 87 H 16. The 77 had no comptip and the 87 did. With my limited racing I didn't notice the difference.

I picked up a used all aluminum mast for $170. I use my comptip mast for all the larger regattas, sanctioned or not. I use my all aluminum mast when I am pleasure sailing or running my spinnaker.

When racing we all must follow the rules and do what is right, even if nobody cares.

Just my 2 cents.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 6:02 pm 
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Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2005 5:43 pm
Posts: 3
Location: Rapid City, SD
While we're on the topic of comptip's. I just bought an 84 Hobie 18 with a comptip mast. I don't believe the mast was ever stored indoors or covered at all during it's life. My question is what is the typical lifespan for a comptip. How many years worth of UV and bending can they take before a person should seriously consider replacing it? The last thing I want to happen is sheet in around C mark and watch the comptip snap off. Any thoughts? Experiences?


Dave


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