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 Post subject: Miracle 20 or Tiger
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 2:04 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 1:20 pm
Posts: 122
Location: Atlanta, GA
This question has been bugging me for a while. My dad is very experienced and accomplished in racing hobies (not to brag I just want you guys to know i'll be on the water with someone highly experienced in case that would affect anything). I learned to crew with him on the Miracle 20, and I loved that boat but my soccer began getting serious and taking up all the free time so we had to sell it. I'm 20 now, and we have not been in the sailing business for a couple of years so I'm looking for advice.
1) It looks like the Tiger is becoming a huge boat for serious racers..are there a lot of people racing Tigers now? Is this boat mainly for open water or will they race well in lakes too?
2) I want to get into serious racing...Are there still a lot of avid 20' racers out there, or would I be better off with the Tiger?
3) And just curious, cause the spin looks so damn beautiful on the Tiger, is it legal to race a Miracle 20 with a spin?

..sorry for the long post I'm just ready to buy a boat for the summer and get back into racing and want to make the best decision. Thanks guys.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 2:41 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 8:45 am
Posts: 759
Location: Clinton Lake Lawrence, KS
Main question would be your location.

Here in Divisions 7 and 14, the 20 is predominant, Tigers are few and far between, on the coasts I think you'll find the opposite is true. As far as I know, there are no spin class starts for the 20.

http://www.hcana.hobieclass.com/default.asp?Page=3694&MenuID=Contacts/10810/0

Check in your Division and contact a local fleet as to the most popular boat.

Good questions and welcome back.

_________________
hobiejohn at earthlink dot net
Fleet 297


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 6:51 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2003 10:00 am
Posts: 383
Location: Long Beach, CA
John is right you should go with the flow of your area.

If you have an equal amount or really have a hankering for a Tiger:
Are you looking for new or used?
What are some of the names of sailors in your area on Tigers. Most Tiger racers are darn good sailors that could help you understand the nuances of spinnaker sailing.

I sail a Tiger, about 3 years now, after sailing a Miracle 20 for about 5 years. I like both boats a lot. Downwind on the Tiger is the best ride of just about any boat.

Are you planning on a guy or girl as a crew? Can you get a racing commitment out of them? What is your total weight together? The Tiger Class weight is 309 and the Formula Class weight is 330. The Miracle minimum is 295. This means that, on a Tiger, you can sail with a heavier crew and still be competitive. Most of the races we sail on the West Coast are now Formula Rules (330).

Even though there is an extra sail on the Tiger it does not seem any harder to sail than a 20. Mostly due to the self tacking jib that does not sheet to the middle of the trampoline, as the 20 does.

By the way I sail with my girlfriend. She is one of the best crews on a Tiger...I think. Together we make Hobie Class weight and have to carry a couple of pounds for Formula 18 weight. We are no faster in light wind than the crews that weigh in at 330 to 340. Heavy winds are mostly a matter of technique on the Tiger. The heavy wind advantage has to go to the heavier teams though. I think that the 20 is a bigger handful when the winds are above 20. Tiger sails nice even with the kite up in above 20.

I would really like to be able to help you further. Post more of your thoughts.

Later,
Dan DeLave


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 10:45 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 1:20 pm
Posts: 122
Location: Atlanta, GA
Im in the Fleet 9 Division 12 area in Atlanta. If you have ever heard of a guy named Nigel Pitt, who's a very experienced sailor and actualy tried qualifying on the Tornados for the olympics in 96. He used to race with my dad and a bunch of my dads friends, he's the only guy i know with a Tiger and i recently mailed him asking if he knew anyone who was selling one. I looked up the rules for the 20 and in the classes the spin is not allowed unlike the open races. I was just curious about that remembering that I never saw a spin on any of the Miracle 20's in the regattas i raced in. I'm looking to get into really serious racing, nationals and big events...all in due time. So I'm just swaying between the 20 and the Tiger not sure which would be my best bet. Thank you guys for your time and input.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 12:34 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 10:20 am
Posts: 27
Location: division 2
If you're in Atlanta you might be in Division 9 - Fleet 12, and if that's the case, the F18 North Americans were just held in Buckroe Beach, Hampton, Virginia last year (2005) within Division 9. Above all of that - if your dad is friends with Nigel Pitt you should just go out and get a Tiger - no question. Plus the 2006 F18 NA's are in Carlyle Lake Illinois and is within striking distance from Atlanta.

There are going to be around 6 Tigers travelling to Illinois from Southern California for the F18 NA's. If I am fortunate enough to be one of those boats, I'll see you there...

Good luck on your dicision,

-Dennis


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:17 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 1:20 pm
Posts: 122
Location: Atlanta, GA
Yeah your right division 9 fleet 12 sorry mixed them up. Nigel Pitt was a member of the fleet, I was fairly young, but he my dad and many other members were pretty good friends and I just remember Nigel being the best of the best and thats what led me to contact him again after years and asking for some help in getting back into everything. Any one ever sail the Spring Fever Regatta?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:19 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2003 10:00 am
Posts: 383
Location: Long Beach, CA
You have quite a selection of great sailors there on some form of Formula 18s. I would definitely stay with that group rather than sail the Miracle 20 if I were there. You will love the boat!

Later,
Dan


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 5:52 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 1:20 pm
Posts: 122
Location: Atlanta, GA
Thanks everyone, found a Tiger with trailor for 9k that I'm heading to pick up in a few weeks. Hope to see some of you guys on the water sometime soon.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 7:38 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 10:20 am
Posts: 27
Location: division 2
Congrats! You made a good decision getting a Tiger. Hope to see you out there too... -Dennis


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 Post subject: Enjoying your Tiger?
PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2006 5:47 pm 
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Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 5:27 pm
Posts: 16
Location: Chattanooga
I crewed on a Tiger at the Sink-Oh de Mayo Reggata and it was a GREAT boat. Loved the way it sang. :) If you are in Atlanta check out the Reggae Reggata on Lake Lanier on Father's Day wkend! LLSC.com. (I'll be there) I have started crewing for a good friend on his Hobie 20 and will contiune to from now on. It is also a great boat. He has raced with the spin but only in long distance racing. Says it is too much hassel with lake racing. I have recently met Nigel and he is currently racing a F-18 Nacra. Spring Fever is a great regatta and is held every Easter wkend. Aught to check it out.
Good luck with the Tiger it is a Beautiful boat!!!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2006 6:23 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2003 10:54 am
Posts: 50
BLR

Congrats on getting the new boat. We have some real competitive F18 racing in the southeast. Check out these sites to find some F18 events EMSA-sailing.org and NAF18.com. Bring the boat out to a regatta and we can help you get up to speed


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 12:26 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 12:21 pm
Posts: 2
Hey BLR give me shout, and I'll help you get up to speed. My office is on Lanier, and I can always hang a "gone sailing" sign on the door...

-Mike
770.403.8710


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