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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 1:44 pm 
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You must be talking about a t- bone where the Nacras bows hit the Tiger. If a Tiger t-boned the Nacra costs would be reversed as the bows are stronger than the sides. Glass/foam sandwich is considered structurally stronger than glass alone. I personally would think a Nacra hitting a Tiger would cause more than $600 damage. I can still vividly remember the bows of a Nacra that destroyed a Hobie 18, but thats another story. Are you trying to say that solid glass is stronger than glass sandwich?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 2:24 pm 
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I agree with ncmbm. I hit a channel marker in the harbor one time with my FX at full clip with the chute up. (Don't ask how, just being stupid. We'll just say it was before the race on Sunday after our famous EYC parties) The only thing that happened was a few chips in the gelcoat, no structural damage at all. The channel marker was dense foam around a 4" galvy pipe. The bow split the foam in half, the bow hit the pipe core. Two foam halves floated away and the pipe sunk.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 2:25 pm 
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It may not be stronger but it is much simpler to work with, no delam to worry about and any regular joe that has ever worked with fiberglass can fix them. But the Nacra's did go to the foam sandwich after a few years so I guess that there must be an advantage.

I do have to call BS on part of your post, the Nacra's built before the sandwich are lighter than the ones built afterwards. So in my mind that means the solid is lighter.

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 Post subject: hmm
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 2:54 pm 
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The glass/foam may indeed be stronger initially, but after any impact, there's bound to be internal damage to the foam, which will significantly weaken the area as a whole. It most def. isn't any lighter.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 3:18 pm 
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That's why in my other posts re hull repair I talk about substrate. It is important for substrate to be solid to do a proper repair, no matter how the boat is laid up. A solid lam may be easier for a shade tree guy to repair. Just slap some glass on it. But thats not a proper repair. Thin solid lam is prone to oil canning and warping after a few years. I had a 1985(?) N 18 squared here the other day and it was warped and oilcanning all over. If solid lam is "lighter" and "better" why does pretty much every modern day boat manufacturer, where weight is a factor, use foam core?
Name one that doesn't. Remember weight has to be a factor of their design. Lets stay away from powerboats.
Name em.
Nacra A3, nope, I 20, no, Catalina 42 Decks are cored, think the hull is solid 1"+glass, Santa Cruz 52, sorry, balsa core, Wylie 42, oops, endgrain balsa. Capricorn F18, foam core. Must be something to this cored business.

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Last edited by Sail Revolution on Mon Dec 04, 2006 3:43 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 3:19 pm 
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I wanted to say something about the material after impact. I have seen solid fiberglass on a small dighny dent in five inchs and then return to the orginal state, I am sure it is not good for it but I think it would hold up better than the foam sandwich.

Trey, I know you like to destroy boats, maybe you can put your addiction to good use. Test two hulls, one solid and one not solid, beat them or something and see what the inside looks like afterwards.

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Hobie 14T, "Blazin" I guess I am keeping her!


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 3:34 pm 
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Foam sandwich is lighter than solid glass for the same structure stiffness. As long as the structure is tubular, solid may be OK, but for larger flats like on the 14 and 16... sandwich is the way to go. The difference in stiffness is like a flat plate compared to an "I" beam. There are also no bulkheads required. I would also tend to believe that the Hobies with foam sandwich is tougher over-all as the Hobies are considered to be pretty bullet proof.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 4:04 pm 
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Bullet-proof ehh? My next hull destruction will include said bullets and then we'll really see!
Shotgun: check
pistol: check
rifle: check
New Anger Management thread: double check!

Finally, the whole world will see what is, and what isn't bullet proof.

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1998 H16 102698
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 4:26 pm 
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I think I read somewhere that a Hobie 18 hull will stop a 22 rifle, I am not sure.
Maybe the bullet holes will make the boat faster, kinda like the dimples on a golf ball.... think it will work.

You really should test the structural differences between solid and sandwich.

Has Hobie ever made a solid boat, or have they always been sandwhich?

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Hobie 14T, "Blazin" I guess I am keeping her!


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 7:13 pm 
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gree2056 wrote:
I think I read somewhere that a Hobie 18 hull will stop a 22 rifle, I am not sure.
Maybe the bullet holes will make the boat faster, kinda like the dimples on a golf ball.... think it will work.

You really should test the structural differences between solid and sandwich.

Has Hobie ever made a solid boat, or have they always been sandwhich?


No way, I've got a 16 sitting here that had been used as target practice by an adventurous young lad with a .22 rifle. One round made it through the starboard hull and half way through the port. I knew I should have taken pictures before starting repairs. Bullet proof is a figure of speech.

I do know that foam will crush. Our twenty has a baseball sized dimple on the inside of the port hull from my son's knee smacking it when the "bottom dropped out" and he went sailing in to it suspended by the trapeze only. I'm not sure of the calculations of load "at impact" but he weighs about 150 pounds. I shudder to think of what might have happened without the foam back.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 7:27 am 
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Trey,
If you're going to shoot them take a video, much cooler. Maybe come up with a corny script and some actors at the lot. Like the blair witch movie. Go for it.
Float them in the pond and blow them up!!
Later


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:17 am 
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take em offshore somewhere, not shallow enough to be a hazard, but not so deep as to not be visible to someone snorkelling or on a calm clear day from the surface. Put some weight in so they will go down.

then video blowing holes til they sink.

Imagine the excitement someone will have some day when they find this Hobie on the bottom!! They will get hours of fun and thrills planning on how to raise it, probably get some friends to help...hours or days of fun and excitement!!

Before they determine its no good. But they'll have a great time dreaming about it. Then maybe they will go buy a Hobie.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:47 am 
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A video would be great, TREY, get to work. I would do it but I don't have any hulls laying around. Although my dad has an old cat that I gave him to use as a duck blind. ;)

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 10:09 am 
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:lol:

good one gree !

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 4:55 pm 
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Location: San Diego, CA
I will once again make the argument that Hobie Cat USAas a company must do what the market drives.

The people clamoring for high performance boats, Look at what the market in the US has told the company.

The imported the Fox from Europe for the F-20 market, and to compete against the I-20. While it sells well in Europe is fizzled here. They produced the FX-ONE for the F-17 market, and replace the outdated design of the H-17. It hasn't taken off, and the H-17 was brought back by demand (I am not saying the 17 is not a good boat, I am using it to make my case about where the catamaran market is in the USA, and how it drives Hobies decisions).

The same goes for the Hobie 16. there are lots of people who like to sit around and talk trash about it, and complain that it is outdated design, kids aren't interested because it handles poorly, or it doesn't have a spin.

However for youths the 16 can be raced with a spinnaker, and if you even suggest making changes to the design or allowing it to be raced in the adult fleets, you are lible to be hung from a Tigers spreader. Again market driving the sales, and engineering.

Even with the newer designs of the F-18 Infusion, and other classes, the Hobie Tiger is still VERY competitive in the F-18 class, without the drive to get a new boat every 2 years. Give Hobie Cat credit where credit is due.

The main reason there is not a huge emphasis on multihull sailing in the youth catagory, is largly because the largest introduction to youth sailors is through Yacht Clubs jr. programs, and the classes or the racing is just not available. When and if that changes, there might be a market for a F-16 / SL-16 design from Hobie, but why push another US model that just doesn't sell?

Us as Hobie sailors have the biggest empowerment to drive youth programs and interest. If we create the interest, then it is only in Hobie Cat's best interest to produce a product to support that market vs. creating a product for a market that as of now doesn't exist.

Thanks,

My 2 cents.

Brent


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