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 Post subject: Re: Hey Hobie
PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 6:49 pm 
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moyra wrote:
I downloaded the Spitfire video that John Eaton linked on the Racing Stakes thread and showed it to one person at my work. The video spread like wild fire thru my workplace.
People were interested, the video is really, really cool.
Does Hobie have one for the Tiger? If so where? If not, why not?

Shhhhh, careful now....theres' a tiger in my garage!!!


moyra


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuRvujRF ... ed&search=


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 7:15 pm 
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I have seen that one.... I was hoping for something new. But yeah that is a cool video!!!

I wonder if the local grocery store would buy me a tiger if I would let them put stickers all over it?? :?:

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Nacra 5.2 "Elsies"
Hobie 14T, "Blazin" I guess I am keeping her!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:45 pm 
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gree2056 wrote:
I wonder if the local grocery store would buy me a tiger if I would let them put stickers all over it?? :?:


I am sure they will if you are the owner of the grocery store. :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:52 pm 
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Sadly that isn't that case, the owner was my boss for many years!

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Nacra 5.2 "Elsies"
Hobie 14T, "Blazin" I guess I am keeping her!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 9:41 pm 
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..back to the thought that the Nacra 5.2 is just solid glass structure...

...this is just wrong. The flat sides of the boat are stiffened with a half round cardboard tube glassed to the inside of each hull left and right.

The cardboard is not structural, it is just there to help make the half round tube that gives stiffness. The problem is that the hull is stiff at that point only, which is why the hull flexes around your feet when you trap off the boat.

The foam core material is now better than the old boats as they were urathane foam like surfboards, but it is now PVC closed cell foam. The new foam is less likely to crush, and is more water tight. the weakness is still the bonding layer. EPA requirments have made that more of a concern as resin has less VOC's and is not as easy to work with...

On cost, as oil prices rise, so do prices for resin, as aluminum prices rise, so do the prices of the castings and spars, labor cost are up too, but that is not the reason for the increasing prices. All cost are up, but I feel all the boats, glass or plastic are a bargain. You buy them once and the boats last for more than ten years. If you spend more than a couple hundred a year on parts, you are lucky because you have used your boat more than most.

Speed is not what makes a strong class. There are a lot of fast boats that are not in production any more. The new Tornado is still the Olympic class, but it is hard to call it a strong fleet. It is too fragil, too expensive, and too much of a pain in the butt to sail/rig/trailer... If the IOC dropped the class tomorrow, the class would die a quick death.

The stock Hobie 16 should be the youth class as well as the olympic class boat. Every nation has them (16s) and the best sailors still win the class. Maybe the IOC needs two classes to be fair. Either the F-18 or Tornado as a develpomental type class (you didn't really think the Tornado was one design did you?) and the H-16 as the one design class similar to the Laser. The Laser is not the fastest dingy, but it does have a strong fleet world wide. Sound familiar?

Want to sail faster than your friends? Buy a used trifoiler.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 7:58 am 
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Hammond,I like the points on both of your forums(about the 16 as the youth boat,and the Olympics).Unfortunatly as an Olympic class that is not going to happen.It almost did back in 96 when they introduced the Laser.(Which many consider as the truiest Olympic class.).The IOC is made up of too many people like Art Stevens who want to continue the Olympics as an Elitist Class,driven by TECHNOLOGY NOT TALENT.The last ISAF president Canadian Paul Henderson was passionate about turning Olympic Sailing back to being more about talent ,then how much money you can spend.He also seen the need for a true beachcat in the event,and was a supporter of the Hobie 16(with Spi). Enough rambling,if I was any good at typing I would go on for too long(i.e Wouter).Just thought I would let you know you are not alone in your thinking,but like myself the IOC is not real interested in what the weekend sailor with shoe string budgets has to say.That is why this is a good forum for sailors (low on funds by high in passion for the sport ) get to have there say.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 9:19 am 
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Please write a letter or e-mail. Everyone will think the status quo is alright if no one speaks up.

On both accounts(Olympics and Youth Worlds/Nationals), the only reason the Hobie 16 is the right choice is because it exist on all continents and is a boat that people the world over can sail today. If the SL 16 class ever gets up and running, then it would be a potential choice, but it's hard to argue with the success of the Laser class. Basic boat, one design, lots of boats around, very active and competitive fleets the world over. Sounds a lot like the Hobie 16 class doesn't it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 11:03 am 
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Location: Clinton Lake Lawrence, KS
And who is actually behind this,

SL 16 North American Class Association, El Segundo, CA

listed under Corporate and Business members of US Sailing?

Michael Siau and Sarah Newberry (US Sailing Youth multi-hull champions, and accomplished H16 racers) were chosen as THE (single, only) team to represent US Youth in the inaugural SLICA (SL16) gold cup event in France last summer.

These two are a minute part of Youth sailing in the US. The committee choosing a boat that is a closer representation of THE Olympic multi-hull Tornado doesn't seem out of line. I don't think we're going to see an onslaught of SL16's in the US that is going to divide our, fledgling at best(based on todays numbers compared to the rest of the world) Youth multi-hull sailing . The boat may end up being successful in other parts of the world where catamaran sailing is much healthier. Choosing the SL16 that "brings performance and innovation in the world of multihull sailing" I don't see as a bad thing.

Young talent will attract the money to campaign and put "the right" kids on the right boats. I'm happy someone got them on a Hobie to begin with and I don't think Hobie Alter ever had the intention of designing an Olympic class boat.

This started as Hey Hobie? :?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 1:02 pm 
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I am pretty sure when Bruce Kirby built the Laser he did not have the Olympics in mind.In fact the Laser was sketched out on paper(now called the million dollar doodle) was originally called the Weekender,and the first sail had TGIF on it.Pretty simple beginning(sounds almost like the hobie 16 story) for what has now become one of the strongest Olmpic classes.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 9:32 am 
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The SL16 brings nothing new to multihull design. Look at the hull. it is nothing more than a modified G-Cat deep V or a modified Dart hull. Add a mylar sail and a spinnaker and this is supposed to be a "new innovative" design. Force the elite sailors (read wealthy) to buy a boat for a class that doesn't exist and call it new and innovative or encourage currently sailing kids (read bored monohull sailing teens) to sail a boat that has a strong racing class to just go out and sail it.

At my club, MBYC, two teams of strong sailors asked me to coach them for the event. Now that we know the boat is not even built yet, we also know that all I can coach on is how to skipper from the wire. These 29er/49er sailing kids already know that and the cat is more stable so it is even easier. Too bad our time will be spent just sailing around and not figuring out tuning, tacking, lay line angles, boat and sail trim. Because of this, their savy parents are not real keen on having the kids skip school to spend a few days sailing on a boat they have never seen.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 11:04 am 
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That is a shame.

I'd think Youth with the talent and aspirations is better off (than worrying with the SL16) taking advantage of a competitive 16 fleet, honing their skills and try to beg some time with a Tornado crew or coach, if the Olympic arena is an ultimate goal.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 3:24 pm 
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I think people tend to set the bar WAY too high and WAY too fast in all youth sports. All the ranking and high stressful competition on the part of parents really puts a torpedo in the whole thing and turns kids away. This is pretty much true of all sports unfortunately. Attempts to thin the crowd by making a sport "expensive financially" or "expensive time wise" succeed in thinning the ranks.

If we ever took the time to talk to youth sailors we would find that they are really interested in having fun, working hard, learning skills and making friends - not going to the Olympics! It's great to dream but for almost all they will take the memories of the fun (or not) with them.

The basic formula is more sailors = better talent and sailing anything that floats will start teaching skills. The more kids that are exposed to the sport, the more likely that top sailing talent is found and nurtured.

Develop the love and the talent will take care of itself, it's hiding in that pack of kids playing soccer, baseball, football ...

This being said, it is pretty clear Catamarans are much more capable of capturing the imagination of youth sailors and Hobie needs to capitalize on this. Less formal Open class sailing with less than pristine (or class legal) Catamarans should be a part of every Hobie event. Otherwise this leaves out a great many that cannot afford a new shiny Hobie to compete at the highest levels (please spare us the Bob won on a 73' - these do not represent the norm). Be creative, advertise for kids that have never sailed to crew with experienced sailors in a race, play some music, have some games, drag in some idiot from a reality show ... make it fun!!!

What is fun about sitting in an Optimist from morning to late afternoon for 7 or 8 races races and peeing in your wetsuit ... uhm ... not a lot :)

Sailing has too much of a "rich snob" reputation and the Hobie's flourished when they embodied the essence of the generation. Let's bring it back down to earth and focus on youth participation. It seems that most of the marketing is attempting to capture the old farts (that would be me) from that generation gone by.

Whooo, where did that come from? :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 4:57 pm 
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Location: Issaquah, WA
The World ISAF Youth Multihull Champ for 2007 will be in Canada on the Hobie 16 with spin. Our US SAILING Youth Team is Eric Raybon and Jason Bilow. The 2008 Event will be on the SL-16. In 2009, the ISAF Event will be sailed on the Hobie 16 with spin.

Locally in Seattle, our Youth Team is training on the Hobie 16, and perhaps a Hobie with spin, plus a Tiger for the 2007 US SAILING Youth Multihull Champ. Local Hobie sailors, Peter Nelson, Laura Sullivan, Jerry Valeske, and others are volunteering their time to coach this team.

Caleb Tarleton


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 7:16 pm 
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Location: Clinton Lake Lawrence, KS
Sailor Joe wrote
Quote:
Hobie's flourished when they embodied the essence of the generation. Let's bring it back down to earth and focus on youth participation.


Oh yea, now your talkin'.

Quote:
It seems that most of the marketing is attempting to capture the old farts (that would be me) from that generation gone by.


Their are ones to tell you otherwise, but it definitely SEEMS that way.

How did that whole aura, and the advertising, work so well back then? Old farts are the only ones with money? At age 24 I drove a $450 car and took out a loan for a $4,200, brand new Hobie 16 and I was NOT the lone ranger.

Somethings missing. :?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 8:04 am 
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Location: Ottawa, Canada
SailorJoe wrote:
All the ranking and high stressful competition on the part of parents really puts a torpedo in the whole thing and turns kids away. This is pretty much true of all sports unfortunately.


I think that hits the nail on the head. Back a million years ago when I was a kid we kids use to say:

"ADULTS ALWAYS ORGANIZE THE FUN OUT OF EVERYTHING"

I think that is still true today and a big part of why kids may not be sailing cats. The adults need to step up to the plate and give the kids a chance to see how fun it is. When I was 15 an adult took me out on an H16 (they did not know how to sail but wanted to try the boat and knew that I had sailed Lazers before so I got to go). That one ride got me hooked. Last summer when I brought my used H18 home my kids had showed indefference to it UNTILL the first ride, then they were hooked and they told all their pals about it. I spend a good part of the summer givving rides. No need for anything organised, all we need to do is give kids rides when the wind is good.


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