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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 6:40 pm 
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Hey guys! (and/or gals)

I was out again this weekend and the second day had winds in the the low 20mph range. I didn't want to go out, as I'm new, but thought I'd better test my 2 weekold skills just to see what would happen.

Man, it was crazy! I only had 2/3rds of the sail out and got dumped almost immediately. The hull got lifted out pretty far, pretty fast, consistantly, but I couldn't quite get a handle on keeping it there.

I'm thinking that a long lake and a consistant wind must be the ticket? I had the sail cleated...is that incorrect thinking? Everyone who sees me take the boat over says it's in slo-motion....why does it seem so fast when it's happening? lol! Is it a question of reps?

I also had trouble crossing over for a tack....I had the rudder on about a 45deg angle, but the wind would just push me and not let me crossover. That concerns me because I had hoped to get on a bigger lake, but if I can't get back to where I started, why take the chance?

By the way, righting the bravo was a snap!

Maybe I just bit off too much wind and should consider it a lesson?

Dave


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 3:08 am 
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Location: Southern IN
daveduck wrote:
I had the rudder on about a 45deg angle, but the wind would just push me and not let me crossover.


Anything more than about 30deg will turn your rudder from a steering control into a brake. The Bravo doesn't turn like a mono, it turns like a tank. You need big, wide, sweeping turns. Sitting on the rear inside corner of your hull helps tremendously.

Along the same idea, it is also terribly hard to pull out of a capsize with your rudder, it works against you if you steer to hard.

Hull flying is just practice, knowing how far you need to be up to maintain it; and getting a good feel for the sheeting to stay up without going over.

Hobie promo vid with hull flying

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 9:21 am 
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Thanks LovesNumbers!

Dang!...a 30deg rudder is a long sweeping turn....

I will practice the things you told me. Looks like I'm going to get wet alot because I'm determined to get this hull flying thing down as best I can.

Funny how I don't mind being "on" the lake, just didn't want to spend much time "in" the lake.

As a side note, I lost my new paddle the 3rd time out...slipped off the boat when I set it down to attend to the sail and sank like a rock in 20ft of water. Two days before that it floated just fine when I tested it....geesh...I'll get this sailing thing down if it takes every penny I own! lol!

Thanks again!

Dave


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 1:09 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 1:34 pm
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Location: Bellingham, Washington
I don't have bravo experience, but on the 16 and 21 you want a nice clean "fast" entry into the tack, steer a nice curve and let off the main as you pass through the wind. If you leave the main sheeted tight, the boat will tend to weather vane into the wind rather than completing the turn.

As to flying a hull, don't "cleat" the main, it takes very little give and take with the main sheet to find the groove. Once you have the rough balance, you use the rudders to do the fine tuning and keep the pressure right. If you have the main locked, most people will tend to wait too long to release it, then when it releases, you end up giving the sail too much sheet and drop back into the water.

Practice :-)

Todd


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 1:24 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:29 pm
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Location: High Point, NC
Over time you will learn to control the heel of the boat by using the mainsheet to power up or depower the boat. The idea is to keep the windward hull out of the water by a few inches. Obviously, the wind and water are in constant flux so your mainsheet handling must be as well. As the heel increases you move your mainsheet hand out to dump air, which instantly depowers the sail. If you start to come back down, you pull in the mainsheet to increase power. At some point it's not as hard as it sounds. I spent a lot of time practicing on various boats this winter and feel pretty confident in keeping a boat at a constant angle of heel without going over now (yes I have been over before). And, of course, the only way to never go over is never to go out. If you sail close to optimum, it'll still get you once in a while.

There are a lot more ways to do this, and hiking and trim play a role. But the thing I'd work on most is quick use of the mainsheet.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 2:12 pm 
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Thanks guys! I knew I could count on this community to help me out.

Just one more thing....does where I sit on the hull have any bearing?

Ok, prepare to get wet!

Dave


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 5:25 am 
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I too just recently got a Bravo and have had it out once. Went pretty well and I am excited to learn. Great information on this forum.

One problem though, that I had, it keeping the main sheet from cleating when I don't want it to. Is there a trick to keep it from being so sensitive. Even when I consciously tried to keep my hand low, it would still cleat.

Should I route the main sheet line under my legs? Would that help?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 10:33 am 
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Location: Central Oregon
You should be able to adjust the angle of the cleat higher. Page 12 of the manual here... http://static.hobiecat.com/digital_asse ... Manual.pdf

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1997 Wave


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 5:37 pm 
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Awesome, thank you. that was exactly my problem; need to adjust the angle. next time will be much better.

Another question; if you do not need to hold a steady course, is it best to control the height of the hull out of the water by heading up/bearing away, or should you just use the sheet? I have not yet raised a hull, so I am not sure how quick you can bring it back down by heading up.

If the hull comes up on a broad reach, what is the best way to lower? Should you still sheet out/head up?

Sorry for all the basic beginner questions :)

Lots to learn but thats what I love about it.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 5:36 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:08 am
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Location: Prince Edward Island, Canada
Flying a hull in a Bravo is tricky business indeed. IMHO it's the easiest in the line up to sail but it may be one of the finickiest to fly a hull. Like any small dinghy, it reacts to wind and rudder changes exceptionally quickly. That is what makes dinghy sailing fun. However, when you take a boat that small and now try to balance it on one hull, you need to react exceptionally fast on the sheet & rudder to maintain a level stance. I only owned one for a year but I did get better at it. I never mastered it.

I purchased a Wave the next year and immediately found it much easier to fly a hull consistently. I'm not saying it's a better boat and I'm not suggesting you should also trade. I'm only commenting on one specific factor that flying a hull on a Wave requires less bionic powers than on a Bravo. Its wider stance and heavier weight meant that it lifted it's hull slower. Almost relaxingly so after experiencing the Bravo. I still loved the Bravo as the ultimate "get on the water NOW" boat and it is no less fun. Just different. Just as a Wave is different than a 16.

One thing though. If my limited experince on cats hold true, if you do master flying a hull on the Bravo (which can be done, just Youtube it,) then you will feel Very confident when you get to try it on the bigger boats.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:56 am 
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That's why I thought a long lake and a steadier, consistant air stream might be the ticket.

Alot of those hull flying promotional shots in the brochures are shot in San Fransico where I imagine those elements are there. (perfect place to show what your boats can do) I'm learning on a mile long lake with various land configurations so things aren't consistant. I plan on getting to larger bodies of water, but I want to get my basic chops down before trying to learn the next level.

Thanks Murph for for lending us your experience!....without getting to sail other hobie's, we have no basis for comparisons. That also explains why my "baptisms" seem kinda fast when they happen. LOL!

Dave


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 1:06 pm 
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When tacking I wait for the sail (boom on my bravo) to cross the center line of the boat before I switch sides. It seems that if I move over too soon I end up in irons. I was out yesterday and did not blow a single tack. Winds were 12 to 17kts during the few hours I was out and the sail was (and always is) fully out.

Flying the hull is certainly a blast and I too have issues keeping it out of the water for long distances, but the more I do it the better I get at it. I tend to let too much sheet out and just puts me back into the water.

Also capsizing a few times has eased my timidness with the boat as I no longer fear the capsize and I am willing to push it to the limits.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 4:09 pm 
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Location: Bellingham, Washington
As to your question about a broad reach, you would head down to de-power if all else stays the same. Closing the reach will power up the boat.

Unless it is very gusty, I control heel almost exclusively with the helm. It is faster and smoother to control than trying to pull in the main sheet. Of course if it is a big puff, easing the sheet while heading up will make life easier. You will learn to watch the water and predict the puffs before they get to you. This will make a huge difference in keeping your heel even and the boat moving fast.


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