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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 6:22 am 
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Location: Massachusetts
Anybody ever want to replace their crossbar bearings on a 21SE, LMK, I've been through the saga. You won't get much help from Hobie, you may even get the wrong parts like I did. After a lot of stuff getting shipped overnight($$$), I finally figured it out.
The outer bearings are held in place by 4 rivets each. If the rivets are standard round head rivets the protruding heads will wear down quickly and the bearing will come off the end of the crossbar. The result is a lot of play at the crossbar/hull tube connection hinging at the pin. This will result in too much wear at the tapered pin hole and probably the destruction of the boat once the pin hole gets enlarged it would take some very tricky welding and machining to fix it, most folks would scrap the boat.
The folks at Hobie know nothing about this and will provide not much help, in fact, the wrong parts to correct it. They have drawings they would not send me, do have or would not provide the proper rivet specs. The owner's manual has nothing about them.
Two solutions work. The first is to find tapered head 1/8" dia.- 1/4" reach aluminum rivets. You have to go to a rivet specialty supplier and buy 100 of them. These rivets will fit into the countersinks in the bearings and will not protrude above the surface of the bearing like a round head rivet (What Hobie sent me with the bearing kit)
Second solution, change the countersunk hole (a countersink is a tapered cut) to a counterbored hole (a 1/4" diameter hole with a flat bottom over the original hole) about 1/32" deep. You would need to go to your best hardware store and get a 1/4" Forstner bit to make this cut, a 1/4" drill bit will not work. Once you re-cut the bearing to a counterbore then a standard issue, round head 1/8" dia.- 1/4" reach rivet head will fit down into the counterbore and function properly.
I'm not trying to dis Hobie here. It is, afterall, a 20 year old boat that has been out of production since '89. But.... the logo is still on the side of the boat, and I am less than impressed by the service I experienced on this issue.
That said, if you ever see your hulls moving around at the crossbar connection, it's probably an outer bearing astray. If you want to deal with the bearings, I can save you a lot of time and $.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:14 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 7:11 pm
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Location: Detroit, MI
Beachboy wrote:
I have to give kudos to Brian C (dog@mariner-sails.com) at Mariner Sails in Texas for the help he has once again provided. I am in no way affiliated with Mariner, just an ordinary consumer.
I had my crossbar bearings on my H21SE let go resulting in some disturbing movement and sound coming from the crossbar/hull connection. I emailed Brian over the weekend and got a reply within hours on a Saturday! He researched the drawings and tracked down the parts for my 20 year old Hobie by Monday. His computer indicated NLA, no longer available, but that didn't slow him down. He found the parts I needed at Hobie and UPS will be delivering them today. It's unfortunate that I have to go to Texas for this kind of service but my local New England Hobie dealers are totally disinterested when I tell them I have a 21SE.
Brian has provided expert advice or will find the information needed to solve my problems, and gets it done fast. Thanks Dog, you're the best.


The Dog wrote:
You're very welcome. Don't forget to thank Nora @ Hobie for finding these and getting them expedited. Cause the reality is that the crew at Hobie (especially Nora and Matt) make it easy for dealers to look good. It was only through good drawings and their support that I could help the other Brian.

(and my thanks too, Nora and Matt.)

Now I guess I better shower and head to work to see what tall buildings I can leap today. :lol:

Brian C


If you want to post a better method of mounting the bearings, fine. But in the process, you slag the very people that went out of their way to help you as best they could to find OEM parts that were technically not available.

You're lucky to have the parts at all - you said it yourself: "It's a 20 year-old boat that's been out of production since '89."

Get real.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:43 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:40 am
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Location: Dallas, TX
:shock:

Feel free to return anything you are not happy with for a full refund. Unfortunately, I am unable to refund the expedited shipping costs that you specifically requested.

Respectfully,
Brian C


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 8:44 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 3:08 pm
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Location: Massachusetts
Yes I did qualify that it's a twenty year old boat out of production so you can make your own conclusion. Some would say that after twenty years the company does what it can and bears little responsibility. Others might have the view that Hobie is the brand and they made the boat, they should service the customer. I've experienced both attitudes in the past, I prefer the latter.
Some might say I'm lucky to get the parts. Others might say I was misled by getting the wrong parts. You are free to draw your own conclusion.
I definitely separate Hobie retail franchisees from Hobie USA. The franchisees in New England have no interest in servicing my boat and are pretty up front about that.
I go to Mariner Sails in Dallas and get consistent friendly service and more from very helpful folks, mainly Brian Cunningham. I've stated that before.
I expect more from Hobie than I got this time.
Get Real? I did, all week, trying to sift through parts that didn't fit and little or sketchy information to get my boat back on the water. Some of my experiences were good, some not so good. I posted about both, with reasonable qualifiers and much praise to those that helped. I offer help to other 21SE sailors that may encounter the same problem. If that's not real enough then my experience is of no use, move along to other posts.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 4:39 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 7:11 pm
Posts: 4641
Location: Detroit, MI
Just goes to show that no good deed goes unpunished.

Your profile says you're a builder. Do you provide parts for stuff you've built 20 years ago? (If you've been in business that long.) Why not?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:59 am 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
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Location: Oceanside, California
MBounds wrote:
Just goes to show that no good deed goes unpunished.


So true...

I responded to Brian about the bearings... I think on the weekend and we shipped the complete order at the beginning of the week.

This "lack of Hobie service" was due to the rivet being "wrong"? The rivet spec says DOM rivet. That was what was shipped. We don't have a drawing that specified anything different.

Frankly... I was surprised we still had access to the bearings... 20 years after halting production.

Pretty harsh.

_________________
Matt Miller
Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 6:04 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 3:08 pm
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Location: Massachusetts
Expecting to get the parts that fit from the manufacturer of my boat, 20 years old or otherwise= "Pretty Harsh"

Getting retail price for shipping parts that don't fit = "good deed"

Explanation for why they don't fit = "the rivet spec says..."

Respectfully gents, we have differing points of view.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:02 pm 
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Posts: 4641
Location: Detroit, MI
Beachboy wrote:
Expecting to get the parts that fit from the manufacturer of my boat, 20 years old or otherwise= "Pretty Harsh"


No, being critical of people (on a public forum) who went out of their way on a weekend to expedite your out-of-production parts = "Pretty Harsh"

Quote:
Getting retail price for shipping parts that don't fit = "good deed"


Your statement implies that the people involved knew in advance that the parts didn't fit, which is not the case. What did you expect them to charge for them? Did you ask for a discounted price? Did you take them up on their offer of a return for full refund?

Quote:
Explanation for why they don't fit = "the rivet spec says..."


What other source of information are they supposed to use? I'll bet there's not a single person left at the Hobie factory that actually built Hobie 21 SE's. Only a few hundred were ever built - Brian probably doesn't see them that often and has probably never worked on the crossbar bearings. There's nobody left that has any significant practical experience with them - except those that own them.

Quote:
Respectfully gents, we have differing points of view.


No, what happened here is that instead of taking the opportunity to share some positive practical experience, you chose to mix in criticism of the very people that went out of their way to help you as best they could, to the best of their knowledge and experience - on a product that was discontinued nearly 20 years ago.

You even complained about the charges for expedited shipping - that you requested!

You can have any point of view you want, but in my opinion, you are oblivious to how insulting and counterproductive your inital post was.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:10 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:40 am
Posts: 952
Location: Dallas, TX
Guys... This is non-productive. Let it go. Please.

Brian C


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