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 Post subject: Gennaker
PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:14 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 6:13 am
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Location: Seabrook, TX
1998 non-illustrated accessories for my 21SC references the following:
36999000 Jennaker and Rig Kit
36999011 Jennaker Rig Kit 'Only'
3699099 Jennaker Kit, Custom Jennaker

Also, I have an illustrated page showing 'general' 21SC Jennaker system.

Would anybody have a detailed description of the parts in these Kits?
Would anybody have dimensions of Gennaker sail for 21SC?

Thanks :)
franklin j VIOLA

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'Esperanza'
SC 21 Sail 253
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:03 am 
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Location: Banana River , Fl
Here's a direct link
http://www.hobiecat.com/community/viewtopic.php?t=6347


You will also need:
two bridles from a Hobie 14 Turbo P/N 10822010
Two sheet block tangs from a Hobie 16 P/N 20120000
Two ratchet blocks of your choosing that will handle 3/8" line
Two strap shackles
Shock cord w/ hooks
A furler, and a swivel like you have for your jib
1/4" line for your halyard
3/8" line for your sheet
a halyard cleat w/ square nuts for the luff track, or rivet it to the side of the mast.

Word of advise, don't place the cleat any higher than the exisiting cleats. I did and I regret it.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 7:40 pm 
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Rockets
I swear my schooling got 'left behind' over the last '8 yrs' as I completely overlooked your previous Jennaker post.
Thank you very much for being so thorough ... again!
I assume since your original post 2 yrs ago that you have plenty of Jennaker use and 'advice', such as halyard cleat placement.
Please let me know if I may contact you offline.
Beautiful boat you sail! :D

Thanks
franklin j VIOLA

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'Esperanza'
SC 21 Sail 253
photo@violaphoto.com
www.violaphoto.com


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:02 am 
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Location: Banana River , Fl
Well I guess I'll type this out again. I had this half page reply ready...and I guess I timed out on the forum and lost it all.

Frank, I hate to say it, but my experience is still very limited. I spent too much time working and not enough time sailing to offer anything with authority.

I do know it's taken me a half dozen tries to get the kinks (most of them) worked out on the Jen. The biggest problem has been with the furling. I don't know why, but it's much more difficult than the jib. Issues have been too much line on the drum, not enough line on the drum, tangling inside the drum. Furling by hand does not equate to furling under load where the sail is wound tighter and has more wraps.

Other issues have been having the sail get hung up. When I unfurl now, I have someone stand by the mast and help guide the sail around the wings and the trap lines. Any one of which have hung me up before. make sure your Jen sheet/ control lines are run well outside of the boat and all other lines or wires. Run them over the top and not under or in front of the forward wings.

I still have issues with the ratchet blocks, and haven't figured out the best angle for them.

Don't expect too much out the Jen. Does it help? Most definitely, is it the same as a Spin on a run? No it's not. However, I've used mine on a beam reach in light winds, and you can't do that with a spin.

Recently me and my brother in law entered the Hagar's Run race. It's just a fun 20 mile distance race and nothing serious. Anyway, we got spanked pretty good. It didn't help that 30 seconds into the race my jib halyard broke, :x but that only delayed us a few minutes...well it broke again on the return leg too and I wasn't able to recover from that, but I digress...

The fastest boat in our group was a H16 with a raw time of 2hrs 50 minutes and my time was 3hrs 13 minutes. My goal really was just not to finish last! We did accomplish this and even finished in front of a Vector Wave 16 (don't ask me how)

Here's the real yardstick. The spinaker boats, F16's, Nacra 20's and even an H21SE had a 5 minute time penalty, and had to run another 12 miles. The fastest boat in that group had a raw time of 3 hrs 19 minutes. On the downward leg most of these boats blew by us. I thought it was pretty amazing actually.

I think we could have done a little better. Had the wind been out of the east as predicted, we could have flown the Jen on a beam reach all the way up and back. True all the other boats would have been faster as well, but the extra sail area of the Jen would have helped equalize things. As it was everyone else in the "light" boats were flying hulls, and we couldn't...unless I went over the the leeward side :oops: The bottom line is the boat's heavy and so am I...

Frank, you can contact me if you wish, I think my address is listed, but to be honest I'm not the expert you're looking for!

Edit. I just re-read what I wrote above and need to put a qualifier in as far as the ease of furling the Jen vs. the Jib. In reality they're about the same...once the sail is furled right and there is ample line on the drum. My difficulties were in relationship to the PITA learning curve issues that kept popping up.

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Last edited by Rockets on Tue Feb 24, 2009 4:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:51 pm 
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Location: Seabrook, TX
Rockets
On the contrary, your experience and open sharing are quite 'valuable'! :wink:

Two weeks ago I installed a Barber-Haul on my 21SC. Very easy to do as I seldom run with console in place. Also, I found a mast rotator wishbone at my 'used' shop and will install it this weekend for additional control.

All of the information you provided, especially furling problems, answer questions I have been thinking about in looking at the less-than-detailed Jennaker layout sketch in my 21SC manual.

Correct me if I am wrong, but from your photographs the Jennaker does not appear to 'zip' onto it's stay like the Jib. :?:

If this is the case, then furling it would not be as easy as Jib. Since finding a 21SC Jennaker may not be as 'lucky' as yourself, I will speak to my sail loft about designing a zip-on style sail with dimensions (or similar) you provided in '07 post. Perhaps an oversize asymmetric jib with a 'belly'. Again, valuable information Rockets as I am not having to start with a blank slate!

While I will not be racing, except perhaps in similar Hagar's Run, 8) mine is be a hull-flying SC21 :D Since proving we can right her (after baptizing two weeks ago), the training wheels have come completely off! :twisted:

Rockets, I didn't see you email on profile so drop me a note.
Thanks again for all your time and support! :D

franklin j VIOLA

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'Esperanza'
SC 21 Sail 253
photo@violaphoto.com
www.violaphoto.com


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 2:51 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:34 am
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Location: Banana River , Fl
Frank, you are correct, the Jen is not rigged like the jib. The stay is an integral part of the sail, and you don't pull on the halyard as you zip it along. Personally, I don't think I'd want one that did. For one thing you'd put a lot more wear on the Jen rigging and derigging each time, vs. just furling and leaving it furled. The PITA factor alone of having to deal with this big ass parachute flying around while you dork around with the zipper, would be enough for me to not ever want to do it again. Others may enjoy the challenge... :lol:

Once you finally get the Jen wound up right and tight, I think it's just as easy as the jib to furl. Rigging and de-rigging are a lot easier and faster. Once you connect your furler to the bridles, all you have to do then is pull on the halyard, and connect your sheet/control lines. I just had a series of mis-steps, and brain farts that hosed me up. Really, if you hand furl it the first time, and wind (in the correct direction :oops: ) a few extra turns on the drum, you should be all set to go for it to correctly furl back up under load. It didn't work for me, but it should have...

Hobie can proably still make you a Jen, but you need to ask Matt. If not I'm sure he could suggest someone that could make an OEM quality duplicate. If all else fails...this is who made mine http://www.epsails.com/ Any way you go, it's not going to be cheap! You could try to buy an oversized Spin and have it cut down, but I don't know that I would. You might luck out and it'd work the same as designed, but then again you could end up with an expensive experiment, that failed.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 3:46 pm 
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Location: Banana River , Fl
While I'm thinking about it, in addition to the swim noodles under the wings for righting, you might consider tying off a length of line to the end of each wing.... Just long enough for you to reach if you were standing on your hull. Take a 10" piece of PVC, drill it in the middle and attach to the other end of the line. Thread the slack part of the line back up under the wings so the handle is snug against the wing. Do this for both ends of the wing so you have two righting lines available.

Attach under your tramp is another piece of PVC with a hook on one end. The thought is if one were to dump the boat, one could grab the hook and pull down the handles from under the wings. I could probably right the boat by myself, but the other handle is just added insurance.

These lines might come in handy too if you had a light crew and wanted to use a bucket / block and tackle system.

I also have a fiberglass extension pole rigged under the boat to use as a "power pole", but I've never had to use it...

TC

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