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21SE Front Crossbar Repair Help
http://www.hobie.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=14631		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  hobie21dan [ Wed Sep 09, 2009 8:22 pm ]
Post subject:  21SE Front Crossbar Repair Help
Hi all,

5 years ago my 21se blew over in a storm and broke the cross bar port side near where the dolpin striker attaches to the crossbar (~10" from Hull). I had it welded and all was good for 5 years then "POP, shudder, OH CRAP" it failed and tore about 60% around last weekend. I doubt it can handle another weld so I'm exploring ways to get back on the water and am looking for ideas/suggestions/pity/a new crossbar/anything.

I have had the following ideas:
1) Find a used FRONT crossbar (email me please if you have one)
2) Buy one from Hobie (tried that 5 years ago, thinking they haven't made one for stock)
3) Buy another 21SE (hmmm, maybe..... I'm addicted to the 21 and too old to sail a F18)
4) Have a new crossbar made (just the tube part)
a) anybody know what grade/size of aluminum this is and where I might get this done? Cost?
b) maybe I could make it stronger with thicker/higher grade stock?
5) Weld the existing crossbar but weld 4-6 straps about 10" long along the general area to beef it up
a) I think I would have to lose the bracket with the 8 rivets in it to allow the dolphin striker to stay the same shape.
b) or create a insert of just a little smaller tubing inside and weld or somehow affix it
c) dido but on the outside instead (I don't collaspe the boat. It stays mast up and travels 1 mile to winter storage)
6) other ideas?

I can post pictures or a link if this is allowed in the forum. Thanks for the ideas in advance!!

Happy sailing!
Dan
H21SE Denver/Lake Mac
Author:  mma600psi [ Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 21SE Front Crossbar Repair Help
I would imagine that there would be a way to weld it properly. I am not an expert welder by any stretch. I do know that unless the circumstance are extreme, there is always a way to repair/weld and fabricate metal.

Finding a front cross bar would be very very difficult and buying a new boat is going to run you $3500-$8000 or more.
Author:  gary eudy [ Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 21SE Front Crossbar Repair Help
maybe a small alumnium tube inside the existing and larger tube welded to the outside all thru bolted and epoxied up
Author:  Jetblast [ Thu Sep 10, 2009 12:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 21SE Front Crossbar Repair Help
I've been thinking about carbon fiber for my H21SE. I believe the H21 Formula has straight cross bars and has a 12' beam....maybe its time to convert.
Author:  MBounds [ Thu Sep 10, 2009 2:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 21SE Front Crossbar Repair Help
Jetblast wrote:
I believe the H21 Formula has straight cross bars and has a 12' beam....maybe its time to convert.


H21 Formula? No such thing AFAIK.

The "problem" with welding (as Dan found out) is that it creates a localized weaker spot in the metal because it removes the heat treatment that makes the aluminum strong to begin with. This treatment increseases the strength by over 30%.

The alloy used in extrusions is 6061-T6. If you've got a metal shop near you with an annealing oven, they may be able to restore the heat treatment after you have it welded up again.

Failing that, you can sleeve the tube, but you have to be careful not to create hard spots - like where the sleeve ends. Ideally, you want the sleeve to look like this:
Image
The fingers prevent hard spots at the ends of the tube. This is probably the best (and least expensive) way to go.
Author:  Jetblast [ Fri Sep 11, 2009 12:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 21SE Front Crossbar Repair Help
The Hobie 21 Formula is a European/Holland thing. It has has dagger boards and a few other changes. Check it out;

http://www1.tip.nl/~t437433/hobie21.htm


There is a video or two on YouTube also.
Author:  MUST5429 [ Fri Sep 11, 2009 4:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 21SE Front Crossbar Repair Help
Dan,

You might also try putting a parts wanted ad on Catsailor.com and Thebeachcats.com
I know there are a couple of H-21 Enthusiasts down near Houston. I believe they frequent those forums.

Stephen
Author:  hobie21dan [ Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 21SE Front Crossbar Repair Help
I had another idea. Since it always the mast and front crossbar to go what about taking a rear and modifying it to become a front?
Author:  hobie21dan [ Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 21SE Front Crossbar Repair Help
I wanted to give the group an update. I appreciate all your ideas.

I ended up taking the crossbar to a guy named Mike that specializes in aluminum fabrication. The crossbar broke right where the end of the dolphin striker attaches about a foot from the hull. Mike ended up taking an alum pipe about 10" long with really thick walls (maybe an inch thick). Mike milled the pipe down so it just barely fit inside the crossbar, cut back the crossbar a little where the previous weld was which left a small gap, then welded the whole mess together and filled in the gap, and finally took a grinder to the make it all smooth and uniform. Mike was careful to keep the overall length the same and have the holes line up correctly for the pins. Since the crossbar now is really thick where the 4 bolts and 8 rivets are we just tapped all the holes and bolted it without the nuts on the inside. To replace the rivets I found some stainless 1/4-20 allen bolts with rounded heads at Lowes. I had to do the same thing for one of the tramp eyelets.

I haven't tried it yet but it looks much stronger than the last fix from 5 years ago.

Pictures: http://www.flickr.com/photos/14146196@N03/sets/72157623530457962/

Mike also made me 4 new oversized pins. The whole deal was amazingly inexpensive.

So don't give up on a 21 just because a few parts need a little TLC. https://www.hobiecat.com/community/post ... 5&t=14631#

Dan
Hobie 21SE #270
Nacra 5.8 #444
Capri Cyclone
Denver,CO - sailing Lake MacConaughy
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