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 Post subject: Hobie 21 SE comptip
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 10:34 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2007 2:16 am
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Location: OHIO
Anyone change out the comptip on this boat H-21 SE ? Where do I get a new one? Mine was damaged on some rocks in a storm recently. :cry:


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:11 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 3:08 pm
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Location: Massachusetts
Not to be too much of a scavenger but if for some reason ytou get a new comptip used and have an extra halyard lock assembly I would really like to buy the movable tang piece if you'd like to part with it.


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 Post subject: 21SE CompTip
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:12 am 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
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Location: Oceanside, California
You can get the 21SE CompTip from any Hobie dealer. #30581051

As noted in another post... there is no "movable part" on the H21 CompTip halyard hook. I don't recall this feature ever being on the 21SE. This must have been a custom part by someone.

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Hobie Cat USA


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 5:10 am 
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Location: Massachusetts
Take a look at Hobie's Illustrated parts guide. The movable part is clearly visible in the drawing and the part is called "Halyard Lock assembly"


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 Post subject: Re: Hobie 21 SE comptip
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 6:46 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 7:32 am
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79 and 80 have the moveable piece. It's the same as on 18s. I wouldn't want to do without it.


Last edited by Tom King on Wed Jul 01, 2009 7:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Hobie 21 SE comptip
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 9:24 am 
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Location: Oceanside, California
The 21SE came out in the mid 80's and always had a CompTip mast... as far as I know... without the "flopper" on the halyard lock, so not sure what is being referred to as "movable tang piece". The drawing may have been pulled from the H18 diagrams, but I'll have a look at the actual plans next week. No mention of it or drawing in the assembly manual. Anyone got a photo of a "flopper" on a CompTip mast?

The flopper... was a flop and was removed from the system long ago. The problem was you had to hoist with such precision to get the ring to lock. Yes, they were easier to get un-locked, but that is simple to achieve by hoisting and rotating the mast to release the ring. Soooo much easier to get it locked it is well worth the change in technique to un-lock.

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Matt Miller
Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA


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 Post subject: Re: Hobie 21 SE comptip
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 5:46 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 7:32 am
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Use a non stretch line like Yale Light 3/16"-so a 1/2" pull on the halyard equals a 1/2" raising the sail, put a couple of twirls in the halyard before you hook it to the sail so it automatically rotates back towards the hook side of the mast, and it will latch without having to fool with the mast rotation. I know a lot of people had trouble doing it, I remember people having to lay 18s on their sides to latch the halyard, but I wouldn't want to do without it. If you want to drop the sail to adjust the batten tension while on the water, to me having to fool with mast rotation is just something else to have to do. I'll see if I can take a picture of the hook on my 21 tomorrow.


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 Post subject: Re: Hobie 21 SE comptip
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 9:48 am 
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Location: Oceanside, California
I have a detailed hosit FAQ http://www.hobiecat.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=371 in case anyone needs specific hositing help.

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Matt Miller
Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA


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 Post subject: Re: Hobie 21 SE comptip
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:12 pm 
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I just drug my boat out of the shed it's been in for almost 20 years. It does have the flapper. One trouble that most people had with the halyard latching, (other boats included as well as the 21), was that they didn't use the best knot. Most tried to use a bowline. A knot like a bowline or anything else that leaves bulk that you can't get rid of on one side can too easily get in the way. The best knot is a single half hitch held by an ordinary overhand stop knot. Epoxy the stop knot and let it set before you tie the half hitch, so you don't worry about it coming loose, dropping the sail, and having to restep the mast again. I never epoxied my stop knot but did on all the boats I sold.

Twirl the halyard a couple of times so the ring rotates automatically back towards the hook side of the mast and put the stop knot on the opposite side of the mast from the hook. Works every time. I never had a customer complain about not being able to latch the halyard because I rigged their boat to start with and showed them how to use it. The stock halyard worked fine on the other boats, but on the 21 it was a long enough run that some sort of non-stretch line made the difference.

Also, you do not want to use some welded up ring and shackle. The loose ring will rotate around from the twirls toward the hook side while the shackle keeps it's orientation with the sail.

A Clamcleat Tug Cleat is worth it for those who are soft of hand and makes it really easy regardless of how you want to tension the battens to start with. I keep one on the end of my halyard. http://www.clamcleat.com/cleats/cleat_d ... theid2=143

I'll get some pictures of my boat after I get it cleaned up. It's been under several tarps out of the sun in a farm building but it looks like it's in pretty good shape other than being to dirty to be seen in public.

Is anyone still at Hobie Cat that was there in the '80s?

Later,


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 Post subject: Re: Hobie 21 SE comptip
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:53 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 7:11 pm
Posts: 4623
Location: Detroit, MI
The 17 has the same system - and I've been racing them for almost 20 years. I use a single-braid 4mm Dyneema halyard with an eyesplice (really easy to do yourself) in the end. Thread the bitter end of the halyard through the ring, then through the eyesplice and pull tight. Absolutely zero bulk from a knot and can be undone at anytime without cutting.

When raising the sail, I stand in front of the front crossbar, thread the halyard down and through the center tramp lacing opening and towards the front of the boat, under the crossbar. That lets me alternately pull on the halyard and feed the sail as necessary. Dyneema has a very waxy feel to it and is very slippery, so there's not that much additional friction by turning around the crossbar. I can brace a knee or a foot against the crossbar to keep the boat from moving as I raise the sail (probably wouldn't have that problem on a 21SE)

There's no special tricks required to attach the halyard to get it to latch. Make sure the boat is head to wind. Pull the sail all the way to the top (there's a definite "click" when it gets there), grap the mast rotator with your right hand and pull to the right (boat's port side). You can sight up the mast and see the hook rotate under the ring. Let the halyard go and you'll hear the "snick" of the ring in the hook.

To unhook, again, make sure the boat is head to wind, pull the sail up, grab the mast rotator with your left hand and pull to the left (boat's starboard side). If you look up the mast, you will see the hook rotate away from the ring. Let the halyard go. Sail comes down.

It's all in the technique. The "flopper" is completely unnecessary.

Tom King wrote:
Is anyone still at Hobie Cat that was there in the '80s?

For a start:
Doug Skidmore
Ruth Triglia
Matt Miller
Bill Baldwin
Hugh Greewald (not sure when Hugh consolidated Sailing Systems with Hobie Cat)

Matt probably knows of others . . .


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 Post subject: Re: Hobie 21 SE comptip
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 12:29 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
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Location: Oceanside, California
The 21 was introduced in 1987. One drawing shows the "flopper" on the mast, but the "Final Drawing" dated 1988 shows the flopper removed, So it was there for a short period of production.

My "beef" with the flopper was trying to get it locked. It was difficult for the average user to pull the sail to just the right height... and not pass the release lever.

Yep, there are many here that have been around 20-30 years. I started with Hobie Sport Center, San Diego in the summer of 1978 and for the factory in 1989.

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Matt Miller
Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA


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 Post subject: Re: Hobie 21 SE comptip
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 12:38 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 7:32 am
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I'm not arguing. I've rigged and sailed the newer boats without the clicker. I understand that the clicker is not necessary, I just like my way better. You don't have to bother with the rotator. I'll take a movie and Youtube it and post a link.

If the sail feeder has the proper sized and shaped opening, there is no need for hand feeding of the sail. They don't all come the same way from the manufacturer. The opening size (slot) varies. The slot needs to be the minimum size possible to allow the sail into it without drag but also without allowing the boltrope any extra room to jamb into the slot.

I used to have a "feeler gauge" made from hard maple but it's long since been misplaced. Almost all boats I rigged required a squeeze with a pair of Channelocks to get it to the right size. If the sail jambs at any time in the feeder, it needs adjusting.

With proper tuning on the feeder, a one time job, the sail feeds right in without having to handle it at all regardless of batten tension. It does require less halyard tension if you unroll it and flake it on the tramp but even that is not necessary.

Say hello to Ruth for me. Hugh came on in '89. I hope I don't still owe him money. I had a rough time of it right about then with the tornado and all.


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 Post subject: Re: Hobie 21 SE comptip
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 12:40 pm 
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Yeah Matt. I didn't remember you. The tornado hit my business Thanksgiving weekend 1988 and I wasn't able to stick around long after that. We probably missed each other in passing.


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 Post subject: Re: Hobie 21 SE comptip
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:23 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:07 pm
Posts: 23
To answer the original question ... to remove a comptip you need to apply tension to pull the thing out and you need to heat it to soften the epoxy. I tied one end to a tree and used a Hobie 17 mainsheet assembly tied to another tree to pull on the comptip. You could drill a hole through the damaged end. I had to use two propane torches, one on each side, to get the epoxy soft. There's about 10 inches of comptip inside the aluminum. You have to drill out all the rivets in the jib tang too, of course. Make sure you drill them out and then drive them in a bit so that they don't catch on the holes in the mast. Tension, heat, more tension, heat, takes about fifteen minutes and then pull like mad and out it comes.

The flipper is a really bad idea. Works perfectly until you capsize the boat in shallow water or over tension the downhaul and bend the hook. I grind off the rivet and throw away any I find.


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