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 Post subject: PVC keel guard
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:51 pm 
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Location: NW Florida
If this idea has been covered I'm sorry for posting about it again. I've had my new T.I. For a few weeks now and it seems that no matter how careful I am I'm always scraping the bottom back of the boat while loading it. I searched other peoples solutions but wanted something a little more robust and would last probably the life of the boat. I have worked with PVC conduit heating it to make custom bends and this is where my idea came from. I had a piece on 1.5 sq40 PVC pipe I thought I would practice with to see how this is going to work out. I cut a slot in the pipe on the table saw. I heated it with a heat gun to the point that it was pliable. I immediately pressed it against the boat to form to the shape of the hull. With in a few seconds it firm up enough to hold the shape then I dropped it in a bucket of water to cool it off. I also beveled the leading edge to help with what little drag it would create. My plan is to use marine silicone sealant and stainless counter sink screws with lock nuts to attach it to the bottom of the hull. I would also use gray PVC conduit so it doesn't standout that much as compared to the white. Any thoughts?http://s63.photobucket.com/user/1cjK/media/Hobie%20Tandem%20Island/imagejpg2_zps8c913437.jpg.html?sort=3&o=2


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 Post subject: Re: PVC keel guard
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:00 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:21 pm
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Location: Maui, Hawaii
Screws or bolts through the hull below the waterline does NOT sound like a good idea... :cry:

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 Post subject: Re: PVC keel guard
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:50 pm 
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Location: Forster, NSW, Australia
I agree 100% with KayakingBob, drilling any holes below the waterline is a recipe for disaster. Don't do it mate!

Surely if you grab a square or two of old carpet you can put one under the end of the kayak that touches the ground during loading, so you prevent the problem in the first place
or
you could make up a DIY arrangement (like my friend Bazza did) which lifts the kayak high enough so when you lift one end up onto a roof rack, the other end doesn't even touch the ground. The extended parts of the trolley just fall apart once he lifts the other end of his AI hull.
ImageImage

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 Post subject: Re: PVC keel guard
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:52 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
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Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
Since you already formed the shape, if you just use a good grade of adhesive that will bond fairly well to both PVC and the HDPE hull ( maybe 3m 5200). You have so much surface area that bolts or screws are not needed at all. This way when it's time to sell or replace you can pry it off.

Alternate 1. If you have a hot glue gun, hot glue works pretty good, if you pre- heat everything a little beforehand it works better ( don't go crazy with the pre heating though), might take a whole rod of hot glue, and you will have to work fast, I wouldn't do more than 6 inches a a time. Just standard hot glue sticks bond to the hull as good as any adhesives I have found, plus it is quick and easy ( a lot of us use it for everything)


A second alternate method that might work better for you (and way safer). I would go to walmart and get one of those white cutting boards ( the kind they use in kitchens, look for the words HDPE) cut it up into manageable strips (2" x 6" max). Using a Teflon frying pan ( at no more than 350 deg) just place the HDPE cutting board in the fry pan and let it melt about halfway thru ( like a pad of butter would do). While your waiting heat up the area you are going to bond to, a little with your heat gun ( don't get carried away though). When the cutting board is partially molten just transfer it to the hull (might need a spatula or putty blade) and form it on the hull ( like you did with the PVC). The cutting board will bond to the hull as part of the hull(no adhesives needed. When done just shape and thin out the edges to suit ( I use a body shop type file). Fill in all the joints with the Hobie welder or hot glue.

Ps if you have an induction cook top with precise temp control, it works best. And don't expect to ever use the frypan again for food ( basically don't get caught, do it while wife is out, and get rid of all incriminating evidence ( I was stupid I put the frypan in the garbage and wife found it, I had to buy her a whole new cooking set)).Hope this helps
Bob

PS: never ever heat up PVC like I discribed above, it emits deadly Hydrogen chloride gas when heated and will kill you. (Polyvinyl chloride) is the chemical name for the plastic (PVC for short), and when heated the Hydrogen chloride comes out ( kind of like WWI mustard gas), just so you know (starting at around 200f). I just would hate to read the headline man drowns in garage working on boat. It only takes a small wiff ( I have burn't my lungs and eyes working with PVC in molding plants). As a side note, the Hydrogen chloride gas emitted by the PVC during molding is so corrosive that all PVC molds must be made of stainless steel, also OSHA requires outside venting of all molding machines running PVC. I'm not even talking about the deadly dioxins that are released when heated (even more deadly), that's another story. The stuff is perfectly safe as long as it's kept below 158 deg F. I'm just sayin...


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 Post subject: Re: PVC keel guard
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 7:22 am 
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Location: Forster, NSW, Australia
Gee, I can help thinking that those carpet squares, or trolley extensions are starting to sound REAL GOOD! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: PVC keel guard
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 9:50 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:09 pm
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Location: NW Florida
I wasn't 100% on putting any holes in the bottom. I thought I would try some of this 3M double sided tape that is used on https://www.keelguard.com product. ImageImage


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 Post subject: Re: PVC keel guard
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 11:26 am 
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Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 2:31 pm
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Location: Kailua 96734
fusioneng wrote:
PS: never ever heat up PVC like I discribed above, it emits deadly Hydrogen chloride gas when heated and will kill you. (Polyvinyl chloride) is the chemical name for the plastic (PVC for short), and when heated the Hydrogen chloride comes out ( kind of like WWI mustard gas), just so you know (starting at around 200f). I just would hate to read the headline man drowns in garage working on boat. It only takes a small wiff ( I have burn't my lungs and eyes working with PVC in molding plants). As a side note, the Hydrogen chloride gas emitted by the PVC during molding is so corrosive that all PVC molds must be made of stainless steel, also OSHA requires outside venting of all molding machines running PVC. I'm not even talking about the deadly dioxins that are released when heated (even more deadly), that's another story. The stuff is perfectly safe as long as it's kept below 158 deg F. I'm just sayin...
:o :shock: :| Holy Smokes Batman!! Time to retire that PVC bong!

Just sayin,... :oops:


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 Post subject: Re: PVC keel guard
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 11:59 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:28 pm
Posts: 31
NOHUHU wrote:
fusioneng wrote:
PS: never ever heat up PVC like I discribed above, it emits deadly Hydrogen chloride gas when heated and will kill you. (Polyvinyl chloride) is the chemical name for the plastic (PVC for short), and when heated the Hydrogen chloride comes out ( kind of like WWI mustard gas), just so you know (starting at around 200f). I just would hate to read the headline man drowns in garage working on boat. It only takes a small wiff ( I have burn't my lungs and eyes working with PVC in molding plants). As a side note, the Hydrogen chloride gas emitted by the PVC during molding is so corrosive that all PVC molds must be made of stainless steel, also OSHA requires outside venting of all molding machines running PVC. I'm not even talking about the deadly dioxins that are released when heated (even more deadly), that's another story. The stuff is perfectly safe as long as it's kept below 158 deg F. I'm just sayin...
:o :shock: :| Holy Smokes Batman!! Time to retire that PVC bong!

Just sayin,... :oops:


Nohuhu, that made me actually laugh out loud.

I've been using a carpet square, but still am concerned with the gudgeon and rudder contact with the ground when I lift the hull - it's ever so slight, but the entire weight is focused there. I'm planning to build a small wood mount that elevates the tail just enough to keep the rudder/gudgeon clear when lifting onto the truck racks. Or I guess I could load it stern-forward...
Aloha, RH

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 Post subject: Re: PVC keel guard
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 12:41 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:09 pm
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Location: NW Florida
fusioneng wrote:
PS: never ever heat up PVC like I discribed above, it emits deadly Hydrogen chloride gas when heated and will kill you. (Polyvinyl chloride) is the chemical name for the plastic (PVC for short), and when heated the Hydrogen chloride comes out ( kind of like WWI mustard gas), just so you know (starting at around 200f). I just would hate to read the headline man drowns in garage working on boat. It only takes a small wiff ( I have burn't my lungs and eyes working with PVC in molding plants). As a side note, the Hydrogen chloride gas emitted by the PVC during molding is so corrosive that all PVC molds must be made of stainless steel, also OSHA requires outside venting of all molding machines running PVC. I'm not even talking about the deadly dioxins that are released when heated (even more deadly), that's another story. The stuff is perfectly safe as long as it's kept below 158 deg F. I'm just sayin...

So true. If working with PVC you should take all proper precautions not to subject harm to your health. I guess I need to add the "release of liability" statement to all my future post.


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 Post subject: Re: PVC keel guard
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 12:47 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:26 am
Posts: 26
Location: Brisbane Australia
I came up with the following solution, as I didn't want to damage the gudgeon and rudder. Find it in my previous post.
viewtopic.php?f=71&t=49790#p224629


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 Post subject: Re: PVC keel guard
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:32 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 2:31 pm
Posts: 2680
Location: Kailua 96734
1cjk, you'll want to taper and smooth the edges of that thing to reduce drag and snags, but the idea is great.

You won't want the RED boats passing you cuz you're a knot slower.


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 Post subject: Re: PVC keel guard
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 5:37 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:09 pm
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Location: NW Florida
NOHUHU wrote:
1cjk, you'll want to taper and smooth the edges of that thing to reduce drag and snags, but the idea is great.

You won't want the RED boats passing you cuz you're a knot slower.

I did bevel the leading and side edges. I think the camera angle is making look super thick.


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 Post subject: Re: PVC keel guard
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 7:39 pm 
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Location: Kailua 96734
Okay. Maybe I shude put this pipe down for awhile,.. :shock:


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 Post subject: Re: PVC keel guard
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 8:56 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:09 pm
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Location: NW Florida
Made one for the front.
Image
Image
Image


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