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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:52 am 
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It was only our 3rd sail so we are still learning although we are not new to sailing dinghies and cruisers. In light winds tacking was no problem. With the wind up at 15+kn and water quite choppy we could not tack, the boat stalled 'in irons' head to wind. This happened repeatedly. With a jib we'd have sheeted hard to bring the bow around, but with the mono we were stuck. Is there a technique to handle this problem?
We would appreciate any suggestions. Thanks.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 9:07 am 
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Simply pedal through tacks.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 11:34 am 
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Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
Yea the TI is not a true sailboat like a laser or sun fish. The best I can describe it is the boat is designed from the ground up around the mirage drive system. I suspect the sail system was specifically designed to work in unison with the mirage drives. A perfect example of this is the TI's poor pointing ability. Without peddling the best you can typically hope for is 45 degrees off the wind, however if you pedal with a nice easy cadence (something most can do continually for hours) you can get up to 30 degrees off the wind easily. Some of us have added jibs so we can get even closer to the wind (Hobie currently doesn't offer a jib option).
In light winds up to around 10-12 mph having the full sail out works best. However when you get much over that most of us start furling the main in. I typically furl one turn in 12 mph winds, then 2 turns in 15 mph winds. In much over that you have to keep furling more. In my experience on a stock TI if the wind gets over 20-25 mph then it's extremely difficult to make any headway up wind (as with most small sailboats). The TI is very long with the sail mounted very far forward, and has a teeny rudder. This makes tacking a little difficult without peddling thru the tacks (that's what most of us do and it's totally unique to the craft, there is literally nothing out there like it.
Like Matt Miller says there is no day you can't go out on an island, no wind it just doesn't matter you can always pedal, high winds you can keep furling the sail in as wind increases and use your mirage drive to get you thru the tacks.
If your coming from other sail craft you will start to appreciate the boomless furl able sail more and more, by learning to trim properly you will find the TI to be virtually impossible to capsize because you only have to show as much sail as the condititions demand, this is a huge advantage in my opinion, having come from a sunfish that I can't tell you how many times I capsized.
In my opinion it's one of the most versatile crafts on the market today and totally unique, truly the SUV of the industry.
Hope this helps
Bob


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:19 pm 
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As fusioneng says, partially furling the sail as wind increases is a good idea. You will be surprised how effective the sail is even if half is wrapped around the mast, in stronger winds. BTW, I wouldn't agree with him that the Island is not a true sailboat. It is indeed quite possible to sail an Island without using the Miragedrive, but why not use it as it is at your disposal.

In stronger winds, I find myself pedalling like blazes to keep boatspeed up throughout the tack, even after applying the usual sailboat techniques of bearing away slightly to increase speed just before the tack, and if there are big enough waves, accelerating down the back of the wave into the tack.

And of course, if absolutely necessary, you can take the "easy way out", and once you are pointing straight into the wind, in irons, point the tiller in the opposite direction to where you want to go, and the hull will swing round pointing the nose in the direction of the new tack as you begin to move backwards. You might find this manouvre easier if you temporarily ease the mainsheet until the nose has gone across. This method won't win races, but that is not what Islands are designed for!

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www.scenefromabove.com.au


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 7:40 pm 
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Thanks to both fusioeng and tonystott for the useful replies. Will try the suggestions of paddling and pedalling to get around tacks. The problem is we are sailing in a very shallow estuary here in Western Australia. will have to get out into deeper water to experiment with paddles etc. We have considered a foresail but will try to manage without as the rigging and furling may be a problem.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 6:11 am 
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Location: High Point, NC
I've sailed mine in some pretty high winds and never had any problem tacking. Just hit the pedals a few strokes as you move head to wind and as soon as you come out on the other side the boat will take off again.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 7:36 am 
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If you think the TI is hard to tack try a hobie 14. All multihulls are harder to tack than a single hull and the use of the mirage drive makes it much easier. One newbie to another, try different things and see what works. And don't hesitate to furl the sail a little either. There is a lot to learn about how these like to be sailed. I am jealous, right now my boat is in the garage until spring.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:09 am 
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I'm a newbie to both sailing and to the TI (bought my boat in August). The only thing I'm not new at is kayaking (which this has little in common with). One of the things I'm beginning to pick up on is how close you can close haul (sail into the wind). I can tell I've gotten to close when the boat starts to enter a sort of spiral where the boat wants to turn into the wind worse than the rudder wants to turn it away, then speed falls off, the rudder becomes less effective, it turns more into the wind, and the cycle continues until I'm in the irons. As Bob mentioned, the mirage is the key and makes this kayak sailer shine. There are people out on the Hobie forums trying to figure out how to put mirage drives on their Cats. Getting through the irons (or staying out of them) seems to be best accomplished through use of the mirage drive.

I will say this for the TI (and I'm sure it's true of the AI) - I've never sailed in my life until I bought my TI. I read a primer on sailing (found on this forum) on the drive down to south Florida islands. After playing around for awhile, I was actually able to get somewhere. I continue to be amazed at how easy the thing is to sail (it has to be - everything I read about sailing looks complicated and consuming). I still have lots to learn, but the curve is apparently very friendly.

Keep those akas locked in and enjoy the boat!


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:21 am 
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As turn into the wind, you'll be able to feel when you're too close - the pressure will come off the sail. You will also notice that the telltales stop flowing and nothing you do will retrim them. The first indication, of course, is that the front edge of the sail will begin to luff (vibrate-wrinkle) and at that point you need to hit the pedals just a few strokes to get the bow through the wind.

When sailing close hauled you can also get a little closer to the wind if you continue pedaling. This will move the apparent wind forward just a tad and allow you to sail closer into the true wind by a few degrees.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 11:54 am 
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Shallow enough that you can't pedal? If the rudder is down, it is plenty deep. You also need the centerboard down to have a pivot point to turn on. At least partially down. You can also pedal in very shallow water with short strokes ... one foot all the way forward ... flaps the fins like bird wings out horizontally. Quick short strokes are as good as long strokes sometimes.

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Hobie Cat USA


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 1:15 pm 
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Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
Where we sail there are quite a few very shallow areas under 1 ft deep. What I do is shallow pedal like Matt discribed, I raise the centerboard slightly, then uncleat the rudder lock down line. I then sail right over the shallow area. With the rudder pointing straight back steering is much harder, so you are limited to what you can do (small adjustments only) but hey it sure beats walking the boat 200 yards out of the shallows.
The only place this doesn't work so well is trying to go thru sea grass, it gets caught in everything.
Bob


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 1:45 pm 
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Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
Andyking wrote:
The problem is we are sailing in a very shallow estuary here in Western Australia. will have to get out into deeper water to experiment with paddles etc.


Andy,
Are you sailing with the drives in but not using them due to the depth? They add a lot of drag if not being used.

Have you tried sailing with the drives out?

I only sail with the drives in, in very light winds. Most of the time the drives are out. They are useless when sitting out on the haka anyway.

I will never agree with Bob (fusioneng) that the TI is not a true sailing boat.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 5:47 am 
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Location: South Florida
stringy wrote:
I will never agree with Bob (fusioneng) that the TI is not a true sailing boat.

I hope it is a sailing boat, because I'm never going to put an engine on it. Fusioneng has done some extremely interesting things to his tandem. It is what he loves to do, but, he has modified his to the point where most people would not recognize it as a Hobie Tandem Island. As I said recently, (joking, Bob, joking!) his tandem is really a powerboat with sails to minimize gas consumption--we all want to save on gas nowadays. Well, maybe I wasn't totally joking. :D

Contrary to what some have said here, I pedal hard through a tack. It depends upon the wind, but the harder you pedal, the faster you will make it across the wind. Some times the wind is so strong, even with pedaling, you can't make through the tack. At that point, you have to do some of the other strategies mentioned here. Generally, simply furling the sail to varying degrees will allow you to pedal through the tack. I hate to furl my sail, but, no question, furling your sail at times makes for better sailing.

Just got back from a great camping trip--where, in my 7th yr of Hobie AI for camping, I learned a lot.

Keith

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I sail: Biscayne Bay, Everglades to Cape Romano, Ft Desoto, Cedar Key

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 8:43 am 
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Keith:
This is absolutely true I elected to configure my boat to take maximum advantage of the typical very low winds in the area we live. I threw out pretty much all existing sailing principle, sail design, and tactics. My thought process is if I'm sailing in 4-6 mph winds 90% of the time (nice flat seas and almost no wind is always the best for snorkeling and diving (what we mostly like to do)). Why not configure the boat to take maximum advantage in the conditions it's used in. I did start out adding more and more sailing area with genoa's and spinnakers to the boat and was pretty proud when I achieved typical 1=1 sailing performance with the wind. However fact of the matter is if the wind is only 5 mph it takes hours to get out to our preferred diving locations (usually 5-15 miles from launch). Some times in key west we have great trade winds (>15mph), and my boat was well equipped to take advantage with it's massive sails, where we have sailed in excess of 20 mph on occasion, but with that wind comes very heavy seas, and visibility for diving goes way down, where just keeping the boat anchored, and being able to swim becomes a challenge (no fun for Bob). So my thinking changed, trying to think of ways how to propel my boat efficiently at low cost at acceptable speeds to me in the typical light air conditions (<7mph) we are in 95% of the time (8-12 mph desired cruising speed). We also discovered that 90% of the time the direction we desire to travel is almost directly upwind or downwind (very seldom a reach).
Basically my boat is specifically configured around and configured to take advantage of the very narrow set of parameters we use the boat for and nothing else. If the winds are over 7 mph, we stay home. Obviously we can't always control the conditions we encounter off shore, so the boat is hardened to be able to perform readily in conditions up to around 25-30 mph winds and very rough seas and still get us back home safely because around here in the summer those conditions can arise suddenly with very little advance notice. If your 15 miles from launch and the fastest you can go is 3-5 mph stuff like this can and does come upon you, it's best to be prepared for it in my opinion. Plus anyone who regularly sails in the keys knows the wind and currents down there can be very fierce, with great risk of being blown out to sea (in the scheme of things, Key West is a tiny dot).
So my boat is best described as a Human/Hybrid powered pedal boat, the sails have been converted to wings and are specifically used to amplify apparent wind, or create their own wind if needed, so your right it's not really a sailboat anymore, but I sure have a lot of fun with it, and can go out and have a good time every weekend for a buck in fuel.
Bob


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:32 am 
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That's great, Bob! You really do an amazing job. I too, like you, I believe, got tired of all the upkeep and maintenance of a typical power boat. Eureka! The AI/TI.

Keith

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I sail: Biscayne Bay, Everglades to Cape Romano, Ft Desoto, Cedar Key

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein


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