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A fortunate change of events: new vertical rudder installed
http://www.hobie.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=35587		 Page 2 of 3
Author:  KayakingBob [ Sat May 21, 2011 9:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A fortunate change of events: new vertical rudder insta
Great to hear all is well with your first test of the new rudder Keith.

Chekika wrote:
The rudder is raised by pulling the up line and cleating it.
I would un-cleat the down line first though! :) That's a surprise for newer AI & TI sailors if I'm not specific in my instructions when we're coming in. Not that I ever forgot! :oops: 8)
Author:  flaneur [ Sat May 21, 2011 11:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A fortunate change of events: new vertical rudder insta
At the end of the installation video, all of the lines are no longer seated in the "upside down pad eye," holding them out of the way of the hatch. The reason these lines are no longer seated out of the way is due to the knots being in the way of a longer plastic sleeve. If I wanted to cause myself more inconvenience locating the knots further forward in the hull (also redoing the preset knots that came with the rudder...maybe even needing longer spectra line altogether), and reuse the existing plastic tubes so the lines can be pushed out of the way, would that cause any problems? It appears the only reason it's not done this way is just to make the installation more convenient. Would there be any other problems doing this?

In any case, I've got my rudder and am looking forward to the installation and the testing!
Author:  Fly4v [ Sat May 21, 2011 1:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A fortunate change of events: new vertical rudder insta
Has anyone considered using a Harken cleat #H471 in-place of the ones supplied with the kit. It would make the up cleat the same as the pre-existing down cleat.
Author:  Chekika [ Sat May 21, 2011 5:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A fortunate change of events: new vertical rudder insta
Fly,

I'm sure that would work fine, and it is a good idea. The plastic cleat w/ with the new vertical rudder kit works, but owners are free to upgrade as much as they want. I'm sure, as far as Hobie is concerned, it was a matter of cost.

Keith
Author:  Dudley [ Sat May 21, 2011 6:12 pm ]
Post subject:  the new vertical rudder vs the old twist and stowe.
I saw the new vertical rudders at the Everglades Challenge on March 4th, 2011. Jim had brought 6 to the meet for AI and TI owners. Bryan Tildon installed the new rudder in his 2011 AI. The rudder pin broke just after he passed under the Manatee bridge which was 9 miles from the starting point. . He was able to replace the rudder pin and he was the only AI that finished the race. Today I got my rudder replacement via UPS. I do have a problem with my twist and stow rudder from time to time. However, when steering gets sluggish I can put the AI in irons, let it drift back just enough to dislodge the sea grass from the rudder and then continue. After sailing for 4 hours last Sunday I noted on several occasions that the rudder required full deflection just to maintain a course off the wind. I finally imagined that the problem was sea grass collecting on the rudder.

I am sailing in Sarasota Bay and the Estuary program is very proud to itself for promoting sea grass restoration in the bay. However, when the current is strong sea grass can be seen floating in large collections. When I sail through a collection of sea grass my turbo mirage drive gets so coated that I used to have to remove it from the well and take the grass off. Now I just sail into irons and let it drift off while I am backing up. I know it is off when I see a large clump show up in front to the kayak. The sea grass collects when the fins are against the hull of the ship and the bungee is holding the left pedal all the way back.
Author:  fusioneng [ Sat May 21, 2011 6:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A fortunate change of events: new vertical rudder insta
Hey Dudley:
I got my new rudder Friday and took my TI out for the first time with the new rudder today. I launched from City Island sailed north almost to your place, then turned around and went back. If you remember I alway had great difficulty with my old rudder, always lifting up and severe weather helm, well the new rudder fixed all my problems, I might even be able to keep up with you now. Winds were around 10-12 from wnw later in the afternoon and I got up to 8mph for a while, but was averaging 6-7 on a reach going north, no weather helm at all with the new rudder (I'm amazed). I'm hoping to get out again tomorrow (if the weather permits) to give the new rudder a real test.
Bob
Author:  flaneur [ Sun May 22, 2011 4:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A fortunate change of events: new vertical rudder insta
Fly4v wrote:
Has anyone considered using a Harken cleat #H471 in-place of the ones supplied with the kit. It would make the up cleat the same as the pre-existing down cleat.


The boat is molded differently where the up rudder handle exits the hull versus where the down rudder handle exits. There's no flat area to mount a cleat like on the opposite side. Not to say you couldn't figure something out, but it's not as easy of a fit as you may initially think.
Author:  Chekika [ Sun May 22, 2011 5:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A fortunate change of events: new vertical rudder insta
Flaneur,

On my 2011 AI and my wife's 2009 AI, the up line surface areas are mirror image identical to the down line. I don't see a problem putting the Harken 471 cleat on the up line of my AI.

Keith
Author:  Chekika [ Sun May 22, 2011 2:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A fortunate change of events: new vertical rudder insta
Dudley wrote:
I saw the new vertical rudders at the Everglades Challenge on March 4th, 2011. Jim had brought 6 to the meet for AI and TI owners. Bryan Tildon installed the new rudder in his 2011 AI. The rudder pin broke just after he passed under the Manatee bridge which was 9 miles from the starting point.


Dudley,

I think you are incorrect in your statement that Bryan Tildon installed a new rudder prior to the EC2011 race, AND, that the new rudder pin broke. Here is a picture of Bryan and his yellow AI at the start of the race. He has the original T-n-S rudder--that was the rudder that suffered a broken pin. In front of him (over his bow) is Dogslife (Paul Kral) who is piloting his red TI with the new vertical rudder.
Image

Here is an earlier picture of Bryan's boat on the beach at the EC2011 launch.
Image

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Keith
Author:  Dudley [ Sun May 22, 2011 7:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A fortunate change of events: new vertical rudder insta
you are correct. he did have the twist to stow rudder. all I knew was that his rudder pin broke. see the pictures at http://www.sf260w.com/EC

I sailed with the new rudder today. For it to work correctly I had to cleat the down line. With the twist and stow the bungee kept the rudder down. the new system sure works fine. I collected two pounds of sea grass. I found that when I wanted to use the marige drive I would just reach under the kayak and take the grass off the blades. It was much quicker than sailing backwards for a few feet to let it drift off. If I let the new rudder drift up it requires constant force on the tiller to maintain a straight line. With the rudder cleated down it sails just fine. The center board would scrape ground long before the rudder would.
Author:  flaneur [ Mon May 23, 2011 3:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A fortunate change of events: new vertical rudder insta
Chekika wrote:
Flaneur,

On my 2011 AI and my wife's 2009 AI, the up line surface areas are mirror image identical to the down line. I don't see a problem putting the Harken 471 cleat on the up line of my AI.

Keith

Interesting. I guess I should have been more specific by noting the Tandem Island is molded differently on the up line side.
Author:  Dudley [ Tue May 24, 2011 6:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A fortunate change of events: new vertical rudder insta
I have sailed my AI for 6 hours with the new rudder. It is unfortunate that this new rudder will not fit on the AIs made before 2011. So knowing now what I do now, what would I have done if I had an AI that the new rudder would not fit on. Simple, I would buy a new hull with the longer trunion that fits the new rudder. Hopefully someone will work out a system to modify the early AI rudder post so that the new rudder can be fitted to it. Don't get me wrong. The early AI is a fantastic machine but the new rudder really makes sailing easier. Sarasota Bay has some really shallow spots and I can now transverse them with confidence. It is nice that the centerboard touches the bottom before the mirage drive and the rudder do. Problems with Mirage drive in shallow water is another issue altogether and Hobie is constantly trying to help overcome these problems. There are new fittings for the turbo fin posts which I have bought from our local, Godsent, dealer. Also, see http://www.sf260w.com/EC.
Author:  Fly4v [ Wed May 25, 2011 12:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A fortunate change of events: new vertical rudder insta
Sorry for the pun but I am rather in that boat.
My adventure is a 2010 and my wife's AI is a 2011. Time and economics will tell what I do but do see some type of conversion in the future since I like the 2010 hull and the 2011 x-bars.
Author:  ratporchrico [ Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A fortunate change of events: new vertical rudder insta
Sorry to go off topic but does anyone know if this rudder mod will fit a 2007 AI or has the rear end moulding changed significantly? I have experienced all the problems mentioned in other posts and would like to rid myself of this troublesome appendage. I'm aware that it'll cost but from the sound of it it's well worth it even at the vastly inflated UK prices. All help appreciated.
Author:  mmiller [ Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A fortunate change of events: new vertical rudder insta
Quote:
does anyone know if this rudder mod will fit a 2007 AI


No. Will not fit any older model AIs. The mold was changed in 2011 to fit the new system.

Older model AIs work well with the smaller rudder... the new system adds some surface area and foil thickness and does work even better though.
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