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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:25 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:19 pm
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Location: South East Queensland
Hello everyone,

Thought I'd posted here before, but apparently not or I've forgotten my login details.

Anyway, thought you all might like to see my AI.

http://youtu.be/Rqsmnu1YgQI


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:11 pm 
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Submbi - very nice. Can you give more details? Looks comfortable and just the right height. Looks great and I like the adjustability. Where did you get the seat?

Vetgam


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 11:09 pm 
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Location: South East Queensland
vetgam wrote:
Submbi - very nice. Can you give more details? Looks comfortable and just the right height. Looks great and I like the adjustability. Where did you get the seat?

Vetgam


Thanks. I am very happy with the way it turned out. I have a Pro Angler 12 (used to have 2 but sold one to get the AI), so the seat is borrowed from the PA12. If it proves to be as good and practical as it seems it will, I will buy the seat back and bottom from Hobie as I will probably be selling the PA in the not too distant future. Hard to sell without the seat I would imagine.

Expensive yes, but I feel my back is very valuable and worth spending money on if I can save it from damage. A couple of weeks ago I spent 10 hours out in the AI and my back was sore for a week after.

Another thing I like about this is the fact I now have a dry ride. When I say dry, I'm talking about when there is no wind and therefore none of the water and spray associated with sailing. I know I am going to get wet when sailing, and I am fine with that, but when it's calm and I'm just pedaling I want to be dry.

I didn't take any photos during the build. The bracket is fabricated in marine ply. The two clamp sections that attach to the cross bar have aluminum laminated onto each side to give extra strength. The cross bar clamps are the only attachment point to the Hull and really only hold position. The section below the pivot points is contoured to the shape of the hull molding behind the seat well out to the gunwales.

So, with the seat fitted, all the weight is distributed evenly across the whole section on and between both gunwales and can not move forward or aft.

The pivot pins are just long SS bolts with a small handle fabricated on the head. The pivot pin puts load on the hole in the bracket, but also through the pivot pin handle onto the outside section above each gunwale. This was necessary because the seat frame is outside the backrest frame and will have the most load on it.

The whole thing was made at home with just basic hand tools: jigsaw, router, files, drills, sand paper and clamps. No plan was used, just an idea and a lot of sitting, looking and thinking.

Not sure if it would be achievable without the side boards? Certainly could not sling the seat base without them, but you could put a padded spacer under the front of the seat frame instead. Slinging the backrest might be doable from the handles on the sides of the hull? I've had the sideboards on since just after getting the AI and would never consider not using them. They just make so much easier to move around and a much more practical fishing platform.

So, now you all know a Vantage seat can be made to work. I would never have just gone and bought one if I hadn't ever sat in one for extended periods, nor if I had never seen one fitted to an AI. However, I am lucky enough to have one available so why not give it a try. I am just about to spend a whole week of all day sailing and fishing and will report back here how the seat goes over that time.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 12:12 am 
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Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
Very clever Submdi! 8)


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 2:17 am 
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Location: Lake Macquarie NSW AUSTRALIA
Don't be surprised if other AI / TI owners follow suit. They are such a comfortable seat and it a wonder Hobie don't have this as an option like they do with carts.

Great mod. What part of Queensland are you from Mark ?

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 10:09 pm 
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Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
I've just watched the Hobie video on the Vantage seat adjustments on the new PA2.
Amazing! Would be great in an Island. 8)


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 2:09 am 
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Location: Lake Macquarie NSW AUSTRALIA
Well there you go then. Didn't take 'em long.

http://www.kayakfishmag.com/news/vantage-ct/

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 3:19 am 
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Location: Fairfax, CA USA
but did the ai and ti get the hull reatment for the seat?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:12 am 
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I don't know about you guys- but I find my self staring at these pictures in awwwwww

Its like a dream come true


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 7:05 am 
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Location: Marietta, GA
File this under "For what it is worth".

Was just out demoing a TI in Dana Point which is right by the Hobie mother ship in Oceanside last Monday. Met a guy who worked for Hobie and asked if I should wait for any changes included in a 2015 model? He said very little difference in the 2015 from the 2014 and not to wait on my purchase. Told my local dealer what he said and he confirmed that is what he was hearing also. So maybe the new seats are really going to show up in the 2016 islands?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 8:41 am 
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Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
To be perfectly honest once I added a little foam padding under my seats on my TI, and fixed the straps so the don't slip all the time, I feel the TI standard seat is quite comfortable, provides sufficient lumbar support (if pulled vertical) and can be quite comfortable for most of the long days I'm out every single weekend.
As far as the mirage drives go, I pedal the drives on my TI's at least 15 miles every single weekend (and usually more), and have never had a mirage failure of any kind since 2007 (not even fins), they are simply rock solid in my opinion (I'm a product designer myself and this is one of the best designs I have seen).
When I bought my first TI in April 2010 if I remember correctly it cost me $4000 dollars (I traded in my 2007 Oasis for $1800 to purchase the TI along with all accessories so the prices may have been skewed a little, since I had already bought many Hobies from that same dealer ( I realize that)). My 3rd TI which I bought in 2012 cost me $5250 (30% price increase) . I believe the 2014 TI's run $5500 (37% increase). There have been no changes to the initial design other than manufacturing process improvements (which shouldn't affect prices greatly since they are producing the exact same parts just better designed versions (ie... examples, AKA knuckles, are now better and stronger, AKA mast holder X bar is now double welded, and the mirage drives now have 2 guide fingers to assist insertion, an improved rudder design (which is likely cheaper to manufacture), and the seat attachment is now twist and lock ( a better design, but no more expensive to produce). If the price of a 2015 Tandem Island goes up to $6000 that would mean a 50% price increase over the original TI released just 4 yrs ago. I understand inflation and increased manufacturing costs for everything, but to my recollection inflation has been very flat the last 4 yrs accounting for maybe 10-15%. I fully understand price adjustments often reflect actual manufacturing cost reviews and adjustments to reality and actual costs of manufacture vs projected (when an initial product is released), and we all expect Hobie to make a profit on their products.
All the improvements I have seen to date are welcome improvements to the product, but the basic boat itself has not changed. I personally would have liked to see improvements in the sail ability of the boat like widening the boat to 12 ft vs the current 10 ft. Viable jib and spinnaker options (which would be extra of course, they can't say it can't be done because I've had both for over 4 yrs now)). An optional hardened version of the boat certified for offshore use ( CE 'C rating), which is where I am most of the time in the Florida Keys ( I had to harden mine myself). A better tramp design would be desirable, along with Optional Hobie built spray skirts and HAKA's specifically designed for the TI.
Some of these options would bring the boat into the class of the Windrider 17 or the WETA trimaran, but a much better and way more versatile design in my opinion.
I don't mind paying more for options that would make the boat more useful for more experienced sailers yet still attract new sailers (in the typical winds we have in Florida I can only bear going 3-4 mph for so long before getting very bored). I'm not complaining about the TI's performance in moderate winds, it's great in anything over 10-12 mph winds, but improved performance in lower winds would be greatly appreciated, additional sail options like the Windrider 17 has (jib, screacher) can easily be added without increasing the complexity of the boat to suit those what want just a little more ability, and have ran the course of using the boat in its basic form and want more, as they become more proficient, and realize that the TI does not have enough sail area for low winds, yes the mirage drives do help, you would have to pry them from my dead feet to get them away from me (LOL).
I thinking of TI owners who have owned their boats for a yr or two, and the newness has worn off, they have gained a little more experience, and are now ready for a little more, currently there is nothing they can do except switch to a different sailing platform (ie... WETA, Windrider 17, etc), I suspect former TI owners who have ran the experience course are the best customers for these types of boats, it's a shame for Hobie to lose them.

Think back 10 yrs, Hobie was faced with a serious dilemma of declining sales in the cat line of boats, because of the one class rules and such, not everyone wants to compete and just drive around little bouys.
Hobie purposely developed their Kayak lines with mirage drives, and from the ground up every kayak can sail with the optional sail kit, this was all intentional, to try and attract a new generation of sailers into the sport, then they came out with the mirage adventure line of boat ( kind of by accident I suspect). They totally invented a brand new category that they are still trying to get their arms around, that literally exploded on them with sales between sailing kayaks and the adventure line 10,20, even 30 times anything they could have ever imagined way bigger than anything they had done in the past with any of their cat lines in years gone by. THEY BASICALLY INVENTED A NEW CLASS OF SAILING. Stirred a totally new market much larger than anything ever seen before. All with the intent I suspect of feeding their sagging cat market (absolutely brilliant in my eyes).
No one knew what this market would develop into (who could have guessed). I feel there is a philosophy still within Hobie that they should limit the capabilities of their kayak and adventure lines of boats, with the express self interest that as sailers get more into the sport, they will want to expand into their traditional lines of cat boats (basically a built in feeder market (a dream come true for them)). Now the other huge thing they did was to promote kayak fishing in a big way with every kayak they make being a total fish slayer, this all of a sudden gives the kayakers something to do with their kayaks (a reason to go out so to speak), I don't think anyone fully realized the impact of this move by Hobie. Lets face it I can count on one hand the number of people I have seen actually fishing from an H16 or a sunfish in my entire lifetime. I believe the market they created is 100-1000 fold bigger than anything they even imagined. I'm in this class of people as a former powerboater who moved to kayaking (because I couldn't afford powerboats anymore). In my life time I never had any desire to own a Hobie cat or a sunfish (though I did own a sunfish when I was a kid, I got bored with it very quickly). I can only speak for myself, but I simply have no desire whatsoever to sell my TI and purchase a hobie cat or a sunfish, or a laser, or even a monohull sailboat.
I like what I have and what I do with my kayaks and sailing kayaks and have no plans now or anytime in the future to change that. I don't think I'm alone in my feelings, I suspect the majority of this new generation of people that Hobie invented all feel the same way.

Now Hobie can continue to limit the ability of their kayak lines in order to coax people who grow tired of their kayaks have someplace to go (basically outgrow your kayak and buy a Hobie 16 I suspect is their policy). Or they can face reality and realize this new generation of people and market that they invented themselves is thousands of times larger than even they could of ever hoped for and imagined ten yrs ago ( a totally new breed of people), trying to feed a market whose hey day has gone by, it's entirely their choice in my opinion. They need to feed this monster of their own creation with someplace to go for all of this new generation of people as their skills develop, and they want more, and speaking for myself only, that direction is not a H16, a Getaway, a sunfish, or a Wave. And remove the silly upper limit of their kayak line products capabilities in the futile hope it will promote sales into a sagging segment that has ran it's course.
I'm just sayin, Hobie open your eyes to your own market that you yourselves created.

I'm just rambling now, but that's my 2 cents worth.
Bob


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:25 am 
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As a new guy here that hasn't even bought his first boat here is my 2 cents.

I only sailed a sunfish in the Gulf once because I flipped it and my first wife into the water along with an expensive watch that she was holding for me. Victim of a sudden gust of wind when we were just sitting there in the water and for some reason asking her to hold my watch. She held on to the watch but that one experience led to me to never want to ever sail again.

After a recent TI demo I was amazed at its stability even out in the ocean which relieved my fears of flipping. End result is I can't wait to sail again and having a great kayak to tool around in on no wind days with pedals ... wow can't wait. So because of the TI experience Hobie has lured a former non sailor into a wanna be sailor with no intention of getting a true sailboat anytime soon ... unless as Bob says I feel like my sailing skills outgrow the TI then maybe.

By the way my wife loves the new Vantage seats if and when they come out. She is kayaking down the James river in Richmond, VA today so a kayak in our future looks good.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:27 am 
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Bob, just a small point, according to Wikipedia, there are 135,000 Hobie 16s around the world, so the Island sales figure will be minute in comparison. (also 46,000 Hobie 14s and 18,000 Hobie 18s would also probably exceed the number of Islands built)
Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobie_cat

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 11:48 am 
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Mark the Shark wrote:
As a new guy here that hasn't even bought his first boat here is my 2 cents.

I only sailed a sunfish in the Gulf once because I flipped it and my first wife into the water along with an expensive watch that she was holding for me. Victim of a sudden gust of wind when we were just sitting there in the water and for some reason asking her to hold my watch. She held on to the watch but that one experience led to me to never want to ever sail again.

After a recent TI demo I was amazed at its stability even out in the ocean which relieved my fears of flipping. End result is I can't wait to sail again and having a great kayak to tool around in on no wind days with pedals ... wow can't wait. So because of the TI experience Hobie has lured a former non sailor into a wanna be sailor with no intention of getting a true sailboat anytime soon ... unless as Bob says I feel like my sailing skills outgrow the TI then maybe.

By the way my wife loves the new Vantage seats if and when they come out. She is kayaking down the James river in Richmond, VA today so a kayak in our future looks good.


Owning an TI will alleviate a lot of those fears about flipping but don't get too lulled into a sense of complacency as there are still chances to flip.
Obviously if you're in the surf or if the AKA brace comes off and your leeward AMA folds back but these are of a more remote probability of happening then flipping a monohull or pitchpoling a Cat.
Good luck with your purchase and go and make some great memories.
P.S., I'm giving you your 2 cents back. :D

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 12:48 pm 
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Oh snap! There goes 3.5K or so....


http://www.kayakfishmag.com/news/hobie- ... re-island/


More freeboard, larger bulbous bow, Vantage seat, longer amas, lowrance read, TI skeg/daggerboard, more head room under sail, maybe even a longer mast...


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