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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:04 am 
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Better to go with 4 bungees per haka Keith. For a short time I had 2 per haka which pretty much worked great. But one day one of the bungees broke and I sailed the rest of the day with no bungee on one section which isn't good. Four (snug) bungees per haka gives you a little insurance, especially on the days where you're in submarine mode a lot. Even with 4 I can still attach or unattach the hakas in a few seconds.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:51 am 
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Good advice, Jim, but I'm pretty comfortable with my single, 5/16" bungee cord loop. I always carry extra bungee cords which could fill in if the loop cord should fail. I will keep an eye on it to see that it is not fraying. Since the loop cord is free to "move" around, I wouldn't expect any specific wear. The "tightening up" that I mention above was simply accomplished by looping it over 2 of the haka boards instead of over a single board.

My current worry about hakas is how much they slow you down due to the 1-2 ft chop beating against the underside of the hakas. That effect could be significant. Of course, I could always use it as an excuse when everyone is sailing away from me.

Keith

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:07 am 
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Keith, I take it you are in the cockpit when this happens? Heeling could cause this effect.

Riding outboard, with balanced hulls, this is rarely a problem (unless there is significant side swell). The tramps cause much more drag.

No one smokes my AI while I'm on my Hakas,.. unless it's a TI. :twisted:


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:33 am 
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Yes, I'm in the cockpit. I'm usually on a camping trip and the hakas are carrying some gear--not necessarily a lot (15-25#), but, items which conveniently go on the hakas rather than in the hull. I do try to load the windward side with the heavier gear, and, I move the haka in on the lee side, and out on the windward side to help balance the boat. Of course, that is not like hiking out.

I can't compare the hakas to tramps since I don't own tramps and have never used them. I do think that the hakas are dragging, especially on the leeward side. The fact that I am usually on a camping trip, and the boat may be loaded to near capacity, means the boat is riding low. Interestingly, when I had my incident (twice)--when my haka 1.5" angle was lifted up over the aka tube by waves--it was the windward side, i.e., the side that should have been riding higher--maybe it was and came down harder on the waves as the boat was being jostled about. At the time, I was not analyzing "why," rather, I was worried about getting the haka & aluminum angle lifted up and forward over the aka into its proper position. As I say, it happened twice in about 30 min as I sailed across Ponce de Leon Bay. It was fairly obvious because it made a loud "whack" as the bunged slammed the haka back onto the aka, but with the angle now behind the front aka.

Keith

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I sail: Biscayne Bay, Everglades to Cape Romano, Ft Desoto, Cedar Key

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 2:11 pm 
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Yup - anything on the windward Aka is going to act like a slingshot in side chop. With tighter bungies, or a heavier load, you should see no significant lift. (I can still slide my Hakas in/out with tight bungies).

Fortunately, any rocking virtually disappears when you are hiking out on a balanced boat. At that point, both Amas glide over the water. Waves are traversed more smoothly. There is less hull drag and spillage of wind, (and less wind under the boat, trying to flip it).

The only issue I sometimes have in BIG swell is finding yourself wrong-footed on the backside of a 6+ foot swell or a smaller breaking wave. You could go overboard, or lose all headway.

Hobies tramps sit at and below Aka level, so they are washed by chop most of the time. At higher speeds, they bury along with the leeward Ama. They also catch the wind and waves on the high side. All this can really slow you down.

But the Hakas sit above the Akas, so even when a leeward Ama submerges, the Hakas should provide a drier, more secure ride for your gear.

One Haka disadvantage I can see is that you and your gear have a higher wind profile and this may add some drag. With air being less dense than water, this is a decent tradeoff.

Since we are bound to encounter waves from any angle, you made we think of another design concern: it's best to avoid any structures UNDER the Hakas that will tend to impede the flow of water and air.

Everyone - feel free to weigh in on these subjects. Many of you have been using Hakas for 2 years now.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:16 pm 
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Location: Clearwater, Fl
NOHUHU wrote:
Everyone - feel free to weigh in on these subjects. Many of you have been using Hakas for 2 years now.
Good timing for updating the haka topic NOHUHU.

I'm getting a new (Ferrari Red) TI next month and have been giving new TI hakas some thought. Especially now that camping season is upon us again in Florida. Until now I've been loving simple wooden hakas and they work great. The TI should be able to accommodate slightly larger hakas so I was thinking about adding a 4" tall fiberglass enclosed compartment on hinges for storing gear on top of the haka. Recently I've worked on few projects with fiberglass and think something custom for the hakas could be fabricated. However that may be too much work. They would cut wind resistance for haka stored gear though.

I'd also like to incorporate some of the newer cool haka options I've seen on the forum. Abisal12 (Spain) had a great video with some really cool expedition hakas with nice cushions on top. I'd like to add those cushions to the hakas. He also incorporated a cart option which allowed the hakas to be used as a cart (I believe using TI dolly wheels). Great for getting gear to and from the boat when camping. And of course the haka camping picnic table option must be in the design - very handy. My original picnic table hakas were too tall and wobbly so I'll lower the legs somewhat (like Keith's).

We're going on a 3 day river camping trip Friday with my AI in skinny adventure mode. It will be strange not having my trusty hakas on this trip.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:17 pm 
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Yes, NOHUHU, I think I have eliminated the "pop up" by tightening the bungee loop. I did this by simply looping over 2 boards instead of a single one as shown in this image. And, as you say, any haka design should have a minimal obstruction underneath to avoid impeding the flow of water under the haka. Image

Jim, don't forget, "keep things simple." You may be falling into the "TI Trap." If the TI can handle it (all that stuff, attachments & gear), bring it. It is a subtle trap. Abisal's hakas are very nice. We will all be looking forward to seeing all your new stuff, may on Pavilion, Dec 5-8?

Keith

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I sail: Biscayne Bay, Everglades to Cape Romano, Ft Desoto, Cedar Key

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:54 am 
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CaptnChaos wrote:
NOHUHU wrote:
I'm getting a new (Ferrari Red) TI next month .




personally getting a Ti coloured Ferrari might be preferable :lol:

cc

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:48 pm 
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Nah, the roof is too short for racks :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:20 pm 
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Location: Southwest Calif.
NOHUHU wrote:
I searched them out, in the US, and they were expensive, heavy and were tied to heavy steel subframes. Too likely to rust.

Closest thing I found was athletic bleacher sections, possibly ready to accept an aluminum base. All made to heavy, kid-proof, lawyer-proof specs though. So I started looking for lighter weight solutions. Polywoods, ladders, metal grates, shelving, etc.

If you know the metal working trade, you may have some better leads. Please pass them along.

I keep fantasizing that I'll walk into Home Depot and there will be an uber cheap china-made picnic bench there with 2 perfect Hakas on it (in white). I'll take the R2A box home for $49.95 and I won't even have to assemble the kit. Just strap them on the AI and go. (Void where prohibited --Supermodels not included). :mrgreen:


Have you ever checked out the plastic fence ?
Just cut it down the middle to 4 ft. Wide X 6 ft. Long.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Veranda-6-ft-x-8-ft-White-Linden-Pro-Privacy-Kit-73013298/203079474

Image

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Unbranded-Pro-Series-6-ft-x-6-ft-Woodbridge-Vinyl-Privacy-Fence-Panel-Unassembled-118662/202544229

http://www.lowes.com/pd_137055-73428-73002114_4294753359__?productId=1214469&Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1&pl=1&currentURL=%3FNs%3Dp_product_qty_sales_dollar%7C1&facetInfo=

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 4:36 pm 
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"Glass-bottom" Hakas! ...well almost...only 5 lbs! [2.26 kg]

Lexan (polycarbonate) hurricane/cyclone shutter/panel - strong and light!

Image
Image

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Last edited by proyak on Fri Dec 06, 2013 3:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:15 am 
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Wow proyak at 2.6kg they are very light! 8)
How much testing have you done? How do you fix them to the aka?
Do they support your weight OK?
They just look too flimsy. More details would be great. :)


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 3:03 am 
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stringy wrote:
Wow proyak at 2.6kg they are very light! 8)
How much testing have you done? How do you fix them to the aka?
Do they support your weight OK?
They just look too flimsy. More details would be great. :)


stringy,
No testing - just a mock-up.
Fixed just like yours! :wink:
re: "just look too flimsy" - say that to Manny Pacquiao's face! :lol:
It's a cyclone panel (polycarbonate) designed to take projectile hits, and sustained winds up to 150 mph (240 kph)
NB. Testing labs did not include failure data of fatties bouncing in the middle of the panel. :(

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Last edited by proyak on Fri Dec 06, 2013 3:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:11 am 
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It's just whacky enuff to work. I'm thinking they'll whistle like pipe organs out there. :lol:

Funny though, I was originally designing a glass-bottom plexi batwing. Those would match nicely.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 4:11 pm 
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If it works without flexing, it kills mine at 4.1kgs. The polycarbonate may take the projectile hits from hail, flying debris or a Pacquiao left hook, but resisting flexing is another thing. Hope it works though proyak. I really like the concept and even if it does flex too much, perhaps you could pop rivet an aluminium angle or better still a square section to the underside without gaining too much weight.

Good think'n.

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