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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 7:29 pm 
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I have a quick question relating to reefing the sail, which we often have to do in our area due to high winds. Does reefing change the angle at which the boat can sail relative to the wind (pointing into the wind)? Sometimes it seems that it does, while at other times there does not seem to be any difference.

Thanks for all of the informative information presented in this site!


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 9:05 am 
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G'day Rhyolken: Strueth, Ive only just found this ages after it was posted. But re furling the main when the wind gets up...Yes I believe you can point a little higher, it is a balance between the wind speed and the amount of sail you have left out after reefing...or so it seems to me. I have an older 2009 AI and I found in strong winds I get a lot of weather helm, but reefing definately reduces this frustrating effect. If the wind backs off a little accordingly let out more sail. When the wind is up (15mph plus) it's time to think about furling especially if you are getting a bit of weather-helm. While this kind of wind produces some terrific and exciting (read often hair-raising) sailing, I give a lot of attention to whats coming at me from the weather-side like steep rogue waves with deep troughs and unseen strong gusts which according to Murphy's Law usually combine to produce one of those ...ahhhh SH.T...moments! Anyway good sailing!
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Last edited by Vintagereplica on Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:05 pm 
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A big performance factor in sailing up wind is boat speed. Either with full or reefed sail, if you point too high, the boat does what we call "crab" sideways rather than moving up wind. You point the nose high, but end up moving more sideways than you want. You have to maintain movement through the water to keep the hull, dagger and rudder foils working.

When you "pinch" or steer too high you lose boat speed. You have to turn away from the wind... even though you are trying to get higher up wind... to gain speed then slowly bring it back up into the wind. Watch the speed... if it drops too much... bear away again... repeat.

Of course, if you pedal a bit, you can point higher too.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:43 am 
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mmiller wrote:
A big performance factor in sailing up wind is boat speed. Either with full or reefed sail, if you point too high, the boat does what we call "crab" sideways rather than moving up wind. You point the nose high, but end up moving more sideways than you want. You have to maintain movement through the water to keep the hull, dagger and rudder foils working.

When you "pinch" or steer too high you lose boat speed. You have to turn away from the wind... even though you are trying to get higher up wind... to gain speed then slowly bring it back up into the wind. Watch the speed... if it drops too much... bear away again... repeat.

Of course, if you pedal a bit, you can point higher too.


This sounds like good advice.

Would you expect that a jib or some sort of small headsail would improve the ability to point upwind? I personally like the ease of a single sail, but would consider adding a jib if it would be expected to improve heading upwind.

Thank you and the other responders for the help and advice.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:13 am 
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Head sails are not typically helpful for upwind sailing. Better for reaching and running. "Uni Rig" (Main Only) catamarans are able to out-point cats with mains and jibs.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:55 am 
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You might find one tack points higher than the other when furled in strong wind. All to do with the shape of the sail coming off one side of the mast rather then the centre.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:23 am 
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Re flying a jib...I have set mine up where I can reef AND furl it, but have to lower the furled jib before I can reef the main...Thanks to some help from Capt Chaos who is sailing his AI in the current Everglades Challenge, I will copy his plan for a mast topper that will enable the main to be reefed without having to lower the furled jib...just reef the jib, takes 5 to 10 seconds, and do the same for the main, another 5 or 10 seconds. When things get rough and the wind starts howling the less you have to do the safer you are. A jib on an AI or TI works, but any more than a wind speed of 10kts and you are putting a fair old strain on that very expensive carbon-fibre mast, but although some blokes claim a small advantage in pointing closer to the wind, as was mentioned above by Matt Miller it is more to do with your speed through the water where hydrodynamics can come into play on your rudder and dagger-board...some advantage to be gained by having the flippers pointing straight down like an auxillary daggerboard
Cheers...Vintagereplica [quote][If it works okay...modify it anyway!/quote]


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:32 am 
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I have observed cat sailors leaving the jib full of air and releasing the main while tacking. The jib does exert great pointing force on the bow (farthest from the rudder) and can help you cross the wind.

I think this is a casual sailors trick. Many racers seem to switch the jib over first, and maintain higher speed through the tacks by using the mainsail.

Maybe some of you cat rats can elaborate.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:54 am 
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NOHUHU, it was my experience when racing keelboats (Holland 1/4 tonner and J24), that pulling the mainsheet in (or more typically, moving the traveller up) would cause the boat to begin to round up into the wind, thus speeding up the tacking process, while slightly delaying taking the jib across, so it just begins to backwind as the bow passes head-to-wind, accelerates the bow passing onto the new tack. This is turn makes the jib snap to its new position sooner. The whole above procedure minimises the amount of rudder required to make a tack, making a huge reduction in drag.

I remember being involved in a tacking duel with a sistership, and even though we were flying a big 150% overlap genoa, the crew coordinated the above tasks to the point where we didn't even need to use the winch handles, and we simply climbed our way past our opponent purely on the efficiency of our tacking.

Ha, sometimes it seems like cheating on the TI by comparison :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:18 pm 
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TonyScott,

I remember racing with large Genoas and having a crewman run the tack (aft corner of sail) up around shrouds and in front of mast and then run back along deck to the winch and then lean against sail as cockpit threw a couple of wraps of the sheet line onto winch!!! A good helmsman could fill Genoa gently enuf not to hurt crewman or blow out the sail from his hands!! Young and foolish!! Fun times :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:07 pm 
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Holy snapping crocodile teeth, you blokes are off relating experiences in mono's...good fun I'll admit, I have one myself. BUT - getting back to jibs on AI's and or TI's which this thread is about, I tried sailing my AI with just the jib flying, expecting it might work like the jib on my sailing dinghy and it would pull me away from the shore in a beam breeze. I was dissappointed as the rudder became ineffective because the jib seemed to apply more force on the bow than the rudder could overcome, in other words the jib steered the AI...something to do with the centre of effort or some-such being moved too far forward is my guess. No doubt MMiller could enlighten us there.
Cheers from Vintagereplica


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:13 pm 
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The priniciples are the same irrespective of hull configuration. Sounds like you just had the jib sheeted in too tightly.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 3:20 am 
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I hear (read) what you say TonyS, I don't remember what configuration I had the jib in, but might give her a go and watch the sheeting. I have a new seat I made up to keep backside out of water which moves my weight a little further aft, so your idea might just work.Cheers Vintagereplica


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 12:42 pm 
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You can still overpower the rudder in the TI, with just the mainsail. Especially if your sheets are tight in 20 mph winds and you forget to deploy the daggerboard.

(OK- I was a little rusty) :oops:


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 4:43 pm 
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rhyolken :
I guess I do the opposite of everyone else in higher winds (> 15 mph) on my TI. I tend to sail very close to the wind (Close hauled I think it's called). What I do is open my sail all the way and pull it very tight. I still make fairly good headway (4-5 mph) almost directly into the wind. With my jib I can sail even closer to the wind (maybe 10-15 deg off the wind in higher winds (closer in lower winds (with the jib))), I always use my jib, no matter the conditions, but thats just my personal preference....
Its hard to keep the boat sailing in this configuration because it is always trying to round up into the wind and stall, so you have to pay close attention. You also need to be very cautious because if you turn away from the wind ( ie... reach) with that much sail showing it will definately tip you over in higher winds.
Another thing I do once in a while if its very windy and rough, I furl up the mainsail completely and just sail with the jib. With just the jib flying I can get up to 5-6 mph and have good control over the boat without having to worry about a big gust capsizing me. I actually quite often come into the harbor with just the jib flying. The jib is much faster and easier to furl/unfurl quickly, and the boat doesn't get away from me when trying to weave in between all the other sailboats in the harbor.


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