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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:47 pm 
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Location: Calga NSW, Australia
Both the TI and recent model AI's come with a screw thread in the rudder control lever, presumably for future fitting of a tiller extension. NOHUHU helpfully pointed out that this was a ¼" 20 TPI thread, the same as most cameras have, for fitting to tripods etc.
This means that a RAM 1" Ball with Threaded Post for Cameras (Part # RAM-B-237) can be screwed into the rudder lever.

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Add a RAM Single Socket Arm with Octagon Socket (Part # RAP-B-200-1U)

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and a Male Octagon Button with ½" Pipe Clevis (Part # RAP-321U)

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and we have a universal ball joint socket for a tiller extension.

Here's how it looks fitted:

Image

Notes:
- It works a treat on dry land, but I haven't yet tested it on the water.

-The threaded post on the ball is not very long, but it fits nice and tight into the thread on the rudder lever. I imagine it could work loose with continuous use, so I'm adding a bit of Loctite.

- The RAM Socket Arm is designed to be clamped down tight on the ball, to hold its angle. To use it as a moving joint, it needs to be clamped lightly - just enough to retain the ball. This leaves the Wing Nut loose also and I imagine it could come right off under field conditions. I added some 12g Neoprene Roofing Seals to act as spacers. With them in place, I can tighten the Wing Nut without clamping down hard on the ball.

- I used a piece of ½" wooden dowel for the handle, but only because my local hardware shop didn't have any ½" o.d. aluminium tube.

- The RAM parts cost $US 21.87 (plus postage) from GPS City in the U.S.

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Last edited by chrisj on Sun Apr 15, 2012 4:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:37 pm 
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Location: Kailua 96734
Love it Chris.

By removing play from the contact points, you have created smooth control arm. A little dab of lithium grease should keep it from binding,

I'm playing with 1/2" Alum tubing now and it would be easy to bend or snap this stuff when you sit on it or land on it while tacking. You could fill this with a wooden dowel or anode rod to give it flexible strength.

Are you interested in grafting an expandable pole or bath rod to it, so you can keep it short when you want it out of the way?

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:12 am 
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Thanks NOHUHU. I had thought I might need to apply a bit of lubricant, but as it has turned out, I can adjust the clamping arm so it doesn't slip off the ball, but has no real friction.

I hadn't realised the ½" aluminium tube would be that flimsy. I noticed ½" o.d. copper pipe was a perfect fit, but thought the aluminium would be a little lighter.

I hadn't thought about an extendible pole. My old tiller extension was only about 32" long and I found that fine for my purposes, which is mainly sitting out on the rear aka or behind the seat. I always kept it connected and just laid it forward on the gunwale when not using it. I'm not a huge fan of sitting out on the tramps, but I'm keen to try some haka seats. Would a longer pole be appropriate for use with them?

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:31 am 
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Location: Florida Keys
I'm doing the same thing, but using the Ram 1.5" balls (they have 1" as well) that you use with their 5 spot mount. It comes with a removable 10/24" phillips head bolt you can remove, drill to 1/4" and use whatever length bolt you want.

http://www.ram-mount.com/CatalogResults ... fault.aspx

As far as a tiller, this might work:

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/DYNAFO ... Pid=search

I know I saw somewhere that 1/2" carbon fiber is available too.

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"Honu-Pulelehua"
2012 TI Dune
"When the going gets tough, the tough drink tea." Jon Turk


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:50 am 
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Location: Florida Keys
1/2" od Carbon fiber solid rod:
http://www.graphitestore.com/itemDetail ... &curPage=3

1/2" id Carbon fiber hollow rod that might be able to work as a collapsable extension:
http://www.graphitestore.com/itemDetail ... &curPage=1

Let me know when you guys work it out, I'll buy one from you! You seem to have a lot more time on your hands than me.LOL!!

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"Honu-Pulelehua"
2012 TI Dune
"When the going gets tough, the tough drink tea." Jon Turk


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:49 am 
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Location: Canberra, Australia
You guys are certainly taking it up a notch! I have settled for a simpler solution, 1.3meters of 12.7mm (1/2inch) dowel, a short length of garden hose & a thumb screw (that's used on boat canopies), mounted to the front steering handle. As chrisJ said, some loctite to prevent the screw working loose is essential. Total cost $4.55.
Image

I have had a couple of sails with this configuration sailing from the Haka seats in 15kts+ wind. Works beautifully, especially with the Ronstan swivel cleat mounted on the front aka in place of the standard Harken cleat.
Image

The only trick that I have had to learn is that to successfully tack in 15kts+, I jump into the front seat & peddle through the tack, then up onto the windward Haka seat.

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2011 Hobie TI


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:24 am 
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Nice. Did you have to drill holes for that swivel cleat or was it compatible with exhisting ones?

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"Honu-Pulelehua"
2012 TI Dune
"When the going gets tough, the tough drink tea." Jon Turk


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:30 pm 
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Location: Clearwater, Fl
That's a slick setup for a tiller extension Chris. I made a simple tiller extension but have never used it.

When I'm sitting on the starboard Haka, I use my foot on the tiller and it works well. At first I did it because I didn't have a tiller extension. But I quickly got used to it and it's so simple I decided I didn't need to worry about a tiller extension getting in my way.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:26 pm 
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Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
All very clever mods! 8)

I wonder why Hobie are taking so long to release their version? :?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:35 pm 
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I steer by foot some of the time. It's probably not good for the tiller, but is so easy to do on a port tack.

With my long arms, an 18-36" extension is all I need on either side. The shorter the better. Because I jump back and forth often (and slide along the Hakas too) I find it helpful to have a stick that's collapsable and can avoid hanging up on the seats, sail or line as I pivot around.

Chris's solution appeals to me in that it uses solid off the shelf parts and can articulate in any needed direction. It's "overbuilt" for the job, but that's a good thing, because it's strong enough to help keep him from pitching overboard, if need be.

Plus, slap a 1/4" threaded ram ball on the end and you have an awesome camera pole.

Chris, the aluminum rods we buy here seem very strong in <2' lengths. As you double that, they seem vulnerable to me dropping my 200lb arse on them, which I would eventually do...I have even bent some of the 3/4" poles, but this takes special talent. :roll:

We have also tried Fiberglass rods, which in short lengths are fine, but >3' they bend too much.

Chris, I forget, do you have a custom rear seating setup for the AI? Or tried a batwing?

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Last edited by NOHUHU on Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:10 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:50 pm 
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nicnrob wrote:
I have had a couple of sails with this configuration sailing from the Haka seats in 15kts+ wind. Works beautifully, especially with the Ronstan swivel cleat mounted on the front aka in place of the standard Harken cleat.

The only trick that I have had to learn is that to successfully tack in 15kts+, I jump into the front seat & peddle through the tack, then up onto the windward Haka seat.

Rob- That's incredibly cool. As the linesman on the TI3, I've been struggling with the sheet angle as I hike out on the benches. If this swivel cleat can handle the forces pulling on both of its sides, it would be a godsend.

When you are ready, please post us more in another thread!

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:35 pm 
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nicnrob wrote:
I have settled for a simpler solution, 1.3meters of 12.7mm (1/2inch) dowel, a short length of garden hose & a thumb screw (that's used on boat canopies), mounted to the front steering handle. As chrisJ said, some loctite to prevent the screw working loose is essential.

Rob, if the thumb screw is held in with Loctite, how do you remove your tiller extension from the rudder lever? Or is it there full time?
Love the swivelling cleat. I want one.

NOHUHU wrote:
Chris, I forget, do you have a custom rear seating setup for the AI? Or tried a batwing?

NOHUHU, I'm sure we had this conversation a couple of years ago. Here's my rear seat.

ImageImage

I'm sure it was you who turned me onto the idea of using surfboard rack pads on the rear akas, to make them more comfortable to sit out on. (It was a great suggestion - thanks!)

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Last edited by chrisj on Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:53 pm 
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That's right. Love it. Thanks-us Geezers forget stuff.

I really enjoy the freedom and comfort of the benches, but from a pure sailing point of view, just shifting your bum out 1-2' windward of that rear seat position will yield similar results.

BTW, I'm still a fan of the "mini-batwing" concept. By extending and reinforcing those PVC tubes out 1 length on each side. you would have a terrific rear bench.

Any other plans for pimping the new hull?

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:26 pm 
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NOHUHU wrote:
Any other plans for pimping the new hull?

Well I don't know if it's just me, but that stonking great rudder flopping around makes me nervous when the boat's out of the water. I like to flip the hull over to drain the mast well and I'm worried the rudder will flop the wrong way and get broken. I was thinking of fitting a cleat to the rudder up-line, like the one on the down-line, so I can hold the rudder out horizontal when I want to.
I was thinking of extending the rear seat at one stage, but I didn't bother once I started sitting out on the rear aka. Wouldn't the haka seat achieve the same effect anyway, by bringing it in close to the hull?

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:33 pm 
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The Hakas will do it all. But to go simpler/lighter, and retain foldability of the Amas, (at least forward) a small batwing is a very comfortable option. I would use it for light duty solo sailing or to supplement the tramps with 2 aboard.

Nice thing about that aft outboard position is that it's the easiest to transfer to/from. You can grab the rear windward aka for stability or lean onto the Akas for leverage.

The new vertical rudder has me on edge too, and is one reason I'm going with the upright Thule set and go saddles. Hoping that never having to flip the hull on my new vehicle will keep me out of trouble.

I believe you can cheat and cleat the rudder in any position now, using the dual lines... yes? Or is the rudder line too short for this to work with the existing 1 1/2 cleats?

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