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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 8:55 am 
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Location: Houston, TX
I played with the spinnaker and jib to day to attempt to minimize lines and complexity. I found that it could be done. It can happen if you go to a single sheet system and when you add a bungee to the snuffer. I will demonstrate both with pictures.

What you get rid of.....
The jib and spinnaker sheets. Both. In my case I can get rid of the self taking Jib lines too. Not sure if I will I kind of like the simplicity of self tackinf but for this demonstration I did. But now you will use one sheet for all tacks/jibes and the same single sheet is used for both sails. It is nothing more than a single line with a quick connect at the end. You simply pass the sheet around the mast when tacking an jibing. I've done this on the water with the jib many times and it is easy to do. The spinnaker is bigger but there are easy ways to secure the line as you release the spinnaker or jibe.

What you will gain....
A cockpit without all the lines.
The ability to furl and unfurl the jib without fighting the tension of spinnaker sheets as they lay on the jib. (those with both know what I mean)
The ability to bring in the amas in while the snuffer remains in place, on the water or off.
The ability to just leave the snuffer in place when bringing in the amas and transporting on a trailer. No more disconnecting the snuffer.
A much faster and simple setup at the launch. No need to attach and set up the snuffer. It's automatically in place by extending the amas.


In this picture, the Snuffer bag is still attached. Using a bungee attached to the aft part of the snuffer bag, you can now leave the bag attached when folding amas. The bag does not sag and remains just as functional.

Image
Notice all the missing red sheet lines.


Here is how simple the cockput can look if you have not sheet lines. This is with both the jib and spin snuffed.
Image

This is how simple it is with the jib out. Same single sheet line will be used for the spinnaker. This line is stored in the pocket when not being used for either sail.
Image

This is how simple it is with the Spinnaker out. The jib is dropped and tucked behind a bungee on the front of the cockpit.
Image

It takes only about 15 seconds if that, to deploy and snuff either the spinnaker or the jib (5 seconds if furling th jib into the main). The jib retains it's ability to be either furled into the main or taken down and tucked behind the bungee.

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Greg
2012 AI with TI Amas
Spinnaker, Jib & Quarterdeck

“Out of sight of land the sailor feels safe. It is the beach that worries him.”
– Charles G. Davis

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Last edited by vetgam on Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 5:58 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2016 7:31 am
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The less rope the better! I do have a spinniker and have not had a chance to get out with it yet. So if there is a better way to run the lines please tell more. One thing I noticed on mine is The sheet will not go into the suffer with out some help getting it started.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:32 pm 
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Location: Houston, TX
I could not get this picture to load into Photobucket the other day. The picture shows a bungee supporting the aft straps of the spinnaker snuffer. This allows the snuffer to stretch when you fold the akas in an eliminates the need remove it each time you load and unload. It also give you back the ability to fold amas in while on the water.

I currently have the bungee crudely wrapped around the spinner cleat and an a knob on the ama. Not sure if this will be my final way of securing the bungee.

Image

Notice that I went slightly off reservation when I rigged that snuffer line. The snuffer line exits the bag, goes around the pully but does NOT re-enter the block. For me this reduced line resistance a bit and I'll take it where I can get it. If your smart, when you install that block, you may want to angle it slightly to your advantage if your going to pass that line back into the block.

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Greg
2012 AI with TI Amas
Spinnaker, Jib & Quarterdeck

“Out of sight of land the sailor feels safe. It is the beach that worries him.”
– Charles G. Davis

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 3:48 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2015 1:03 pm
Posts: 14
Way to VG!

I knew you would figure out the simple way

Shibumi

8)

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Rob

2014 TI Papaya
Aussieonyak Haka mods
GaryInWI seat mod
Yangler tiller extension
KayakingBob Aka tether
Polytarp Jib


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:53 pm 
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Location: Houston, TX
Rprince, seems like the spin is getting a bit easier to furl over time as it developed creases and softens a bit. I think it's easier with a wet sail too. I don't pull hard as I start. I just bring the sail down and into position snugged up against the mouth of the snuffer first. Then I wrap the snuff in line around my gloved had and give it a forcefully pull to initiate it into the bag and then the rest is not so bag. So the effort is made only st one point. You get use to it. Not a big deal after a while.

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Greg
2012 AI with TI Amas
Spinnaker, Jib & Quarterdeck

“Out of sight of land the sailor feels safe. It is the beach that worries him.”
– Charles G. Davis

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:15 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:58 am
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Location: Forster, NSW, Australia
Just a couple of things Greg...

What is your philosophy for having the spinnaker cleats so far out on the aka? Hobie's video recommended 2-4 inches out from the knuckle. I know you have chosen a different position deliberately..

In order to aid the snuffer swallowing the sail, I am planning to "prop" the top of the mouth up using 1/2" pvc garden sprinkler system pipe, between the top of the mouth, and the "cross at the rear of the snuffer (or the aka if the snuffer rear can't support it enough. Do you think such a mod is necessary, given that you are finding snuffing improves with time.?

As it seems desirable that the spinnaker halyard/backstay remains slack when the spinnaker is snuffed, does this suggest that the snuffer should not be located right out on the aka, or is this a trade-off for keeping the mainsail and lines apart?

Keep up the good work, as you are helping to build confidence in this new piece of gear

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker!


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 6:05 am 
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Location: Houston, TX
THanks Tony. The distance that I placed the spinning cleat out was all about clearing my quarterdeck so it I not likely an issue for anyone else. Im tall so reaching out is not a problem. In fact, foe me, it is actually a more comfortable cleat position than to have the cleat so close to me while trying to pull a sheet line. It is personal choice. Having them in close might make sheet management easier. I just did not have that option without giving up the quarterdeck. Makes no difference with function. Having the cleat out further is giving me a convienent point to attach a bungee for the snuffer.

Placement of the snuffer bag followed placement of the spinner cleat. It works well for me but a shorter person may watch it in closer if they ever need to assist the spinnaker into the bag. I never had to. I don't know the influence of bag position to halyard tangling. I would suggest that before you screw the snuffer block into the aka you might want to zip tie it in and try out different positions for the bag. Then screw it in when your happy with it.

I never had a big issue with snuff in the spinnaker and the improvement over time is not huge. But has been enough that I have not focused on a solution yet. You will probably be the guy that figures out a better way. Someone will. Seems like a good next project to work on. It would be nice if it were effortless.

We all have so much fun working out the road blocks aND doing mods. No doubt in my mind all the bugs can be worked out. It's a beautiful sail.

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Greg
2012 AI with TI Amas
Spinnaker, Jib & Quarterdeck

“Out of sight of land the sailor feels safe. It is the beach that worries him.”
– Charles G. Davis

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 6:54 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 6:20 pm
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Location: Pula - Sardinia
Hi VG
Did u ever felt the need of a sort of "bag" to contain the jib at the base of the mast?
In case of the "only jib" and no spi configuration I suppose the lines should be even less right?


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 11:26 am 
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Location: Houston, TX
SI, I initially was stuffing the jib into a bag but quickly realized that that was unnecessary and took looger. One I release the jib halyard and tack line, the jib falls back to me and I grab it mid sail and just roll it up (no flaking or folding). This is fast and results in a cylinder that when placed behind the jib, goes nowhere and does not unravel. A bag just got in the way.

If you don't add a spinnaker, you have a very simple boat especially if you create the self tacker.

The genius of the Hobie spinnaker is in the continously loop halyard/backstay/snuffer line. One circular loop does it all and this look steps up the complication only mildly. It's the spinnaker sheets that will begin to make you feel like you are in the center of some sort of kayak spider web.

Everyone know there limits to what complexity they will tolerate. I can live will all the lines if needed. I love all the extra sails. You learn tricks like running the spinnaker sheets under the hull's side bungee to keep the lines taunt and organized. But I am finding that the boat can have it all without that much complexity. So many options still yet explored.

Subtitute a code zero or genoa sail for the jib, as you were considering and now your down to just 2 sails. You have your upwind and downwind covered. Just be carefull. I have no idea if the mast supports will hold up to those larger forsails sails without Hobies clever spin rigging. I have not had an issues with a fractional 100% jib and no backstay.

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Greg
2012 AI with TI Amas
Spinnaker, Jib & Quarterdeck

“Out of sight of land the sailor feels safe. It is the beach that worries him.”
– Charles G. Davis

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