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 Post subject: Re: Steering
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:13 pm 
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Location: Cape Coral, FL
PassWind wrote:
Quote:
lengthened the tiller by drilling down the center and inserting a length of carbon fiber rod.

I can turn the rudder lock to lock with ninety degrees of tiller movement instead of 180 degrees. This will allow for some stretching of the rudder line and still maintain control.



I am not understanding how lengthening the tiller arm changed the amount of degrees the handle has to sweep from lock to lock - please explain :?:

... I can understand how lengthening it increases the resolution, so to speak, and allows for finer control on a degree basis and think this is a nice advantage to keep the craft from wandering too far off a point of sail


The throw of the tiller is very short, about 2.5~3 inches. That means that the tiller arm can only pull 3 inches of line in one direction. My tiller arm can pull 6 inches. The rudder head allows about 3 inches of pull per direction, which is fine when sailing around in perfect conditions. However, when conditions are tough, the rudder line stretches, the boat gives a little, rudder gives a little, and when you look back at the rudder, it is straight even though you have the tiller hard over. Yes, I increase the resolution, but I also increase the amount of tolerance before I am hard over.

j


(yes, the rudder is locked down; push your boat and you will see)
(yes, i could furl, but i like going fast)

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 Post subject: Re: Steering
PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 12:53 pm 
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Location: Calga NSW, Australia
tonystott wrote:
I believe I am the only person reported here who has actually broken a steering line, and it was within about 6 outings from new, so we suspect that the line must have been assembled incorrectly and was perhaps rubbing on a scupper tube or similar. As Matt says, the stock steering line is very strong (220 pounds breaking strain I believe), but I also note you are actually talking about a solid cable for a pull/pull system.

I've just joined your club Tony. Yesterday, my rudder up-line snapped, about 7cm from its attachment to the rudder. It's a bit of a mystery, as this is the rudder line that gets the least use and it's never cleated down tight, like the down-line. It was a bit disconcerting as I had just been out in 25+ knot winds, struggling to make headway. If it had been one of the steering lines, it would have been a real problem.

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 Post subject: Re: Steering
PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 1:45 pm 
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Location: South Florida
I recently pointed out that you can get considerable chaffing on your up/down rudder lines (vertical rudder) when trailering your boat long distances. http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=7276&start=315

I am replacing those lines on Jan 1. It looks like a fairly straight-forward job if you followed Jim Czarnowski's video directions installing the vertical rudder. My AI is a 2011 vintage. I don't know about replacing rudder lines on newer boats--similar or different?

Happy New Year!

Keith

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 Post subject: Re: Steering
PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 3:19 pm 
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Thanks for that Keith. I hadn't seen that post before. My line snapped well clear of the rudder line guide or any other potential fraying point, so I am guessing it was just a bit of faulty spectra, or else some critter gnawed at it, unbeknownst to me.

A Happy New Year to you too! :D

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 Post subject: Re: Steering
PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:59 pm 
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Chris, the rudder line I'm replacing is a relatively short section, about 3 ft (1 meter) of beige line, which runs from the rudder housing through the tube into the hull. In the hull it attaches to spectra line as directed by Jim Czarnowski in his video. That 3 ft rudder line is referred to as "Hobie Mirage Replacement 1,000 lb Rudder Line" in the Austin Canoe and Kayak on line catalog (http://www.austinkayak.com/products/13621/Hobie-Mirage-Replacement-1000-lb-Rudder-Line.html). So, its breakage point is near 1000 lb. Maybe I don't have to replace my heavily frayed up/down lines--they look like they have at least 50% of the original remaining--I think that figures to be 500# strength, plenty to lift that vertical rudder. Still for piece of mind, I'll probably replace them on Jan 1.

Keith

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 Post subject: Re: Steering
PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:14 pm 
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Chekika wrote:
Maybe I don't have to replace my heavily frayed up/down lines--they look like they have at least 50% of the original remaining--I think that figures to be 500# strength, plenty to lift that vertical rudder. Still for piece of mind, I'll probably replace them on Jan 1.

Keith

Keith, mine broke without any pre-existing fraying at all, that I was aware of. As I said before, it's strange given that it's the line which is the least stressed of all. Just to be on the safe side, I think I'll use some of the spectra from my old hull to repair it. BTW, can you direct me to that Jim Czarnowski video - I can't seem to locate it. Thanks.

Chris

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 Post subject: Re: Steering
PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:06 pm 
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Location: Lake Macquarie NSW AUSTRALIA
Sorry for the hijack but are you keen on the Port Stephens trip ChrisJ. If so I'll give you a ring to discuss the latest !

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 Post subject: Re: Steering
PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:10 pm 
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Slaughter wrote:
Sorry for the hijack but are you keen on the Port Stephens trip ChrisJ. If so I'll give you a ring to discuss the latest !

Russ, I'm dead keen, but I have the usual complications. I might be able to get up there for one day. I've just been lurking, to see what everyone else arranges.

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 Post subject: Re: Steering
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 7:01 am 
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Chris, here is the YouTube link to Jim Czarnowski's video on installing the new (at that time) vertical rudder. It is an excellent video. The rudder came with the very heavy 2.5' rudder lines. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLNdFtJkR8Y Those are the lines I'm replacing.

Keith

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 Post subject: Re: Steering
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 11:30 am 
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Thanks for that Keith. From the video, it looks fairly straightforward if the lines are pre-threaded into the tubes. Trying to thread a piece of spectra into the existing tube, on the other hand, is proving a bit of a nightmare. Guess I better order the proper replacement part.

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 Post subject: Re: Steering
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 12:31 pm 
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The tube should also have little grommets in it that go around the spectra line to keep more water out.

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 Post subject: Re: Steering
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 1:48 pm 
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Chris, I've used piano wire to tie onto a line, run the wire through the tube, and pull the line through.

Regarding the grommets, mine have been worn thru by the up/down rudder lines. At first, I thought they were causing the fraying of the up/down lines. In any case, I put a SS lift right after the lines come out the grommets. This lifts the up/down lines off the grommets.

Rudder lines cutting through the grommets
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Stainless Steel lift to remove cutting of grommets
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Keith

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 Post subject: Re: Steering
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:29 pm 
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Keith, the grommets I speak of are made of rubber and are inside the tubes.

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 Post subject: Re: Steering
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 5:45 pm 
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Yeah, it's those little grommets inside the tube that are the problem. I'd try piano wire, but the Steinway is at the tuners at the moment. I might just try and transplant a whole line/tube assembly from my old hull.
BTW, I wonder if my up-line may have frayed against the edge of the rudder housing.


Image

Geez, I wish the forum would go back to sizing images automatically.

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 Post subject: Re: Steering
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:00 pm 
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Nice calibration Keith. I would never have thought of that lift. :idea:


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