Adventure Island Jib and Lee Helm

The Batcave, I feel honored........ will Catwoman be there?

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Greg

2016 AI - Spinn & Jib

“Out of sight of land the sailor feels safe. It is the beach that worries him.”
– Charles G. Davis

NO! No cats allowed. Just these,..



You can bring the Coke.

Took the jib out this weekend offshore while fishing. Here is a video showing the bend in the mast. I used my phone to record so that you don't get the GoPro fisheye distortion. This is with the no-permanent-mod halyard attachment which worked very well for me. I was suprised that with winds up to 14 mph I got less bend than previous outings and better speed. I'M becoming a big fan of the jib as I learn how to tweak it.

Hobie Adventure Island with Jib Offshore: https://youtu.be/InQ-QVDRN9M


I was also suprised that I gained more speed when I relaxed the luff of the jib just a bit. I always thought performance was suppose to be best with a tight luff. Is this a matter of the way the jib is cut and varies from jib to jib?

Vetgam

_________________
Greg

2016 AI - Spinn & Jib

“Out of sight of land the sailor feels safe. It is the beach that worries him.”
– Charles G. Davis

It is a function of the cut of the jib. The looser the luff, the deeper the hollow of the jib, but also the furtther back the deepest part is. So a flat cut jib will benefit from a looser luff, whereas a fuller jib will lose drive if the luff is slackened.

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker

If you look at any of my videos, you will see my mast bending even more than yours most of the time, the mast on the TI is even more bendy than the AI mast. I suspect the reason the worst point of sail on my TI is a reach (90 deg off the wind) is because of the extra sail area causes more heeling moment (the force trying to tip you over). If the winds are over about 8-9 mph if I have the sails tight (max power) if I'm just sitting in the seat and not hiked out I have to relax the sails a bit or furl the main in a turn or two to keep from burying the AMA (likely because of the extra sailing area). Even with the main furled or relaxed a bit, I'm still able to sail 1-2 mph faster with the jib vs without. However as the wind increases so does the heeling moment. At around 12 mph winds on a reach I have to start furling in both the main and the jib (my regular jib (not my wing jib)). Over 12 mph winds the main alone over powers the boat so I typically furl the jib most of the way and sail mostly on the main on a reach. In 12 mph plus winds I don't know about anyone else but just with my main alone, I have a hard time getting any closer than 45 degrees to the wind upwind. However if I pedal and open both sails all the way with them pulled very tight, I can make good headway up wind (with the regular jib I can get 20 to 25 deg off the wind and still make good headway (VMG). This is the main reason I have the jib (for upwind sailing). The jib also really helps on down wind by sailing wing on wing, actually it works so well on down wind, I seldom bother with the spinnaker anymore. Because of the geography of the area and the normal winds Around here I find myself sailing upwind or downwind 90 percent of the time (almost never a reach), so my TI is specifically rigged to sail best upwind in very low wind conditions (pretty typical around here). Also in this area if the wind gets over 10 mph we get washing machine 2ft chop and it gets very un comfortable for me with my bad back out there. So I tend to only go out when the winds are 2-7 mph (which is most of the time here), with my boat specifically rigged for that. My stock TI (with no extras) only goes 2-3 mph in 2-5mph winds, with most of that provided by the pedals (more like zero ( or backwards) if you don't pedal).
Another huge issue I have is 10 months out of the year it is very sunny in South Florida and the keys in the 80's-90's out on the water, sitting in the boat with no wind is like sitting in a frying pan (and I'm the yoke (lol)). So I modified my TI just a little to suit the area and our typical conditions, I extremely happy with what I have, I think thats all that counts, don't really care whay anyone else thinks or does, our family boat fits our lifestyle to a T.
FE

I'm getting much more out of the jib downwind than I expected. When actually wing on wing, I used the FlexiBoom on the jib and it holds the jib out nicely. Still, I find a broad reach faster than wing on wing and prefer that.

I should have some video up soon showing my quick release and takedown method with the jib. I caught a jack Sunday while full sailed and had to quickly bring the jib and main in to keep from loosing the fish. It worked fine but a true fisherman is not going to want a jib. Consider me a hybrid sailor/fisherman. I'm getting a kick out of the extra speed and ground I'm covering.

Vetgam

_________________
Greg

2016 AI - Spinn & Jib

“Out of sight of land the sailor feels safe. It is the beach that worries him.”
– Charles G. Davis

I experimented with the no-permanent modification halyard attachment, the wing on wing jib out-haul using the FlexiBoom , the furling the jib into the main and took film to demonstrate this as well as a simple setting up and taking down the jib technique I have settled into.

When I attached the halyard with about a foot of line from the mast head, it allowed me to furl the jib about 1/2-3/4 WITHOUT losing the slot effect! This was a bonus. So I can make some reefing adjustments of the main while the jib is flying.

I used the FlexiBoom to maximize the jib when wing on wing. Easy to do, but, I still find I move faster in a broad reach.

You can see in the beginning of the video where, in light winds, I first lift the jib. Watch the speed of the boat before and after I set the jib. The boat course is maintained the same and you get a feel of what a jib can do for you in the light winds as I set off.

https://youtu.be/Vs9IuO7OzJI



Vetgam

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Greg

2016 AI - Spinn & Jib

“Out of sight of land the sailor feels safe. It is the beach that worries him.”
– Charles G. Davis

Good news for those that like the jib furling into the mainsail concept!

It turns out that I was wrong and that the jib furling into the main sail can work and maintain the slot effect very well once I understood a few things. I had to attach the halyard/jib head to the mast at the mast head with about a foot line so that the main begins furling prior to the jib. This allows the slot to be maintained throughout 80% of the furling process. Second I needed to release the tack line while maintaining some tension on it so that main can furl all the way in. Furling takes all of 3-5 seconds now and is easy. I like this better then hoisting the jib each time. The following three videos show the varied stages of furling from a 360 degree viewpoint.

Here is the AI with about 1/2 the main/jib furled

https://youtu.be/0IVIrOi4oZw

Here is the AI with almost all the main/jib furled. (will not sail effectively once the slot effect is lost)

https://youtu.be/O3NDsLfIFXM

Here is the AI with the main/jib completely furled

https://youtu.be/42z2NOWv0EQ

Here is the AI being sailed with 1/2 the main/jib furled.

https://youtu.be/GK3u9p2Tv9M

Vetgam

_________________
Greg

2016 AI - Spinn & Jib

“Out of sight of land the sailor feels safe. It is the beach that worries him.”
– Charles G. Davis

Interesting VG. No matter how you hang it, that's a nice jib. Keep it up!

I agree with Nohuhu that is the nicest Jib I have seen.
Still not sure about furling into the main, I think I still prefer my rotating mast topper setup with the rear stay (I have had too many problems with that 1/4" stud at the bottom of the hull to trust it). At least in my case whenever I have serious structural issues, I never trust those components again.
The TI is a little different with the mast mounted so close to the bow, I kind of need the bow sprit and the re-enforcement bars on the bow (the TI's bow is still too weak to support any significant fore sails IMO (that appears to be corrected on the new AI 2).
Everything also depends heavily on what you need your boat to do. Where we live (in south Florida and the Keys it's always great distances from where we can launch to where we want to hang out. When in Sarasota we often meet our powerboat friends at local sand bars and beaches, and yes we like to bar hop (no cooler place to do that than here). Unfortunately there are very few nice places to scuba dive and snorkel around here (our favorite things to do). It's 7 miles to South lido beach from where we launch (where most of our friends hang out). It's 12 miles to point of Rocks (a nice diving spot), 15 miles to the sunken Molasses barge off Holmes beach, and 25 miles to egmont key and ft Desoto (we go there often). You would think I would be faster to drive to ft desoto launch at their boat ramp then sail the 8 miles to Egmont key (honestly it's faster for us to sail there). Down in Key West It's even further to to any interesting areas (unless you happen to like diving in bare sand (plenty of that anywhere near any of the keys (lol)). The other problem we have around here the typical wind 9 months out of the year is typically 2-7 mph whenever we go out (which is most every weekend thru the 9 month summer). Of course there are days with more wind, but along with the wind comes the waves and washing machine chop, and visability goes down to zero (for snorkeling), it also gets downright unpleasant on any small boat, including our friends powerboats so all of us tend to stay home when it gets too windy. Another huge factor for us is the currents (especially the fierce currents all around Key West Island and the inlets into sarasota bay, we got into serious trouble many times with our stock TI (couldn't get back into shore against the wind and current).
That's another observation I have made, there are a gazzilian Sunfish and Lasers around here, I don't recall ever seeing one more than a mile or two from the Sarasota Sailing squadron, they are usually out there just zigging back and forth with no apparent destination in mind (seems really boring to me), I don't recall ever seeing one pulled up to Oleary's (a popular waterside restaurant), and we almost never see any at the sand bars and beaches we usually hang out at (though we do see a lot of Hobie cats, Weta's, and Windriders (they apparently know how to have fun). There are also a lot of really big sailboats around here which are a sight to behold with their giant genoa's ( I call them cruisers), pretty impressive but who in the heck can afford somethin like that (not me for sure).
To each their own, it appears everyone has a specific need for their boat and configures them to suit their needs. It appears this makes us the furthest thing from hard core man vs sea sailers, the acute problem we have is if we plan to meet our friends at South Lido or Egmont key all the beer is gone by the time we get there traveling at 3 mph in the typical winds around here. I have no clue how anyone else does it (don't really care either), I just know I'm pretty happy with the setup I have and have no plans to change anything anytime soon.
Thats my story and I'm sticking with it (though I wouldn't mind owning a jib cut like yours (just a tad bigger for the TI though, something I could easily furl (but not on the main (I'm not sold on that one yet, but I might be coming around), but I'm not handing in my giant spinnaker anytime soon, I like having options ( IMO there is nothing more fun in sailing than flying a giant spinnaker, a sight to behold) I'm sure Hobie will sell a lot of those when they come out.
I'm just curious how everyone else does it... It appears everyone out there is perfectly happy with their stock TI's and I'm totally alone in my thinking except a small few brave soles (lol). To each their own I guess.
Bob

Yes, foresails are not for going to be for everyone. When the jib furls into the main, it becomes an ideal jib for the fisherman that likes to troll. Thats me. I primarily like to sail but I leave a line in the water. So it's perfect for me. More speed while sailing with a quick furl potential leaving the front of the boat clear of lines and sails when I get lucky.

I have two concerns that I am still monitoring. Will just have to take one for the team if the boat ends up damaaged. The first concern is the bolt you mentioned at the mast base. Time will tell. The other is chafing od the mainsail at the head. I am monitoring that closely. All I can do is keep a close eye on things and keep the forum posted, good or bad.

I suspect my final project will be a spinnaker. Bob, what sail broke the bolt at the mast base, the jib or the spinnaker? Did your dealer fix it or did you have to?

Vetgam

_________________
Greg

2016 AI - Spinn & Jib

“Out of sight of land the sailor feels safe. It is the beach that worries him.”
– Charles G. Davis

Oh I forgot to report that when the jib and main are partially furled, I did not experience weather or lee helm. The boat would continue on course fine with my hands off the tiller. I wasn't sure what to expect.

Vetgam

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Greg

2016 AI - Spinn & Jib

“Out of sight of land the sailor feels safe. It is the beach that worries him.”
– Charles G. Davis

Actually i have broke several, most were before they went to the rolled thread (improved harder stud). I broke one going downwind in strong winds wing on wing (no spinnaker). I have broken 3 with the spinnaker in strong down-winds. But none since the stronger studs came out, and since running a perminant rear stay line. I have no idea if the rear stay is required with just a jib, all I know for sure I lost trust in that stud arrangement long ago.
Bob

Sounds like I should just hold off on the Spinnaker idea. May be a better plan would be to wait for the Hobie endorsed reacher that may be coming. There should be some experience to back it up by then. Can anyone define for me what a reacher sail is and does? Is is just a small asymetrical spinnaker? Does it typically have any upwind capabilities?

Vetgam

_________________
Greg

2016 AI - Spinn & Jib

“Out of sight of land the sailor feels safe. It is the beach that worries him.”
– Charles G. Davis

Wait for Hobie to release more info, or I could send you some spy shots

The reachers are flatter spinnakers with sharper cuts, that allow you to reach closer to the wind, but not so far as a jib/Genoa. Very versatile in lighter winds. When they get closer in profile to a huge Genoa, I believe they classify them as code "0"s. (Like the zeros used so effectively in the later Americas Cup races). Like spinnakers, AO's are raised when needed, often on a furler rig. Whereas spinakers are doused.

Upwind sails, (Jibs and Genoas) stay rigged and furled on most boats these days. Although they can be hanked and raised/lowered.

Folks can feel free to correct me on this stuff. It's theoretical for most of us.

Here's a handy visual guide to downwind sail shapes.

http://www.na.northsails.com/tabid/22065/Default.aspx