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 Post subject: Texas 200
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 3:08 am 
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Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:07 am
Posts: 598
Location: Punta Gorda, FL
Want to see some crazy sailors on a great adventure?

http://wikiproa.pbworks.com/2009-Texas-200-blog

According to the blog, a couple of Adventure Islands participated and broke lots of rudder pins.


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 Post subject: Re: Texas 200
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 2:41 pm 
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Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2007 6:39 pm
Posts: 101
Location: Venice, Florida
Hey Tom,

Thanks for T200 link. Rudder pins seem a cheap/simple fix compared to other problems. Hope Hobie continues to Keep it Simple or at least Simple to Fix. :wink:

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Polecat
------------------
Hobie AI & WS Tempest 180 Pro
SW Gulf Coast: Sarasota to Keys

I'm not completely useless. I can always serve as a bad example.


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 Post subject: Re: Texas 200
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:46 am 
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Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:07 am
Posts: 3
Location: Texas Gulf Coast
There were indeed two AI's in this year's Texas 200. I sailed one (dubbed the Tupperware Trimaran by one of our Nacra 20-sailing buddies) equipped with the new trampolines and my partner, Andrew, sailed the other AI (without tramps).

We are preparing to post a thorough recount of the event here. We had a rudder pin failure on average every 10 hours. We learned to adjust our sailing style and be prepared for the inevitable failures. We also learned how to "feel" a pin failure coming on.

The boats are 13 months old. Mine has been sailed between 400 & 500 miles in that time (including the Texas 200); my partner's far less. The yaks are now sitting at our dealer as there is a laundry list of issues that need to be addressed. The dealer has suggested that since the boats were used outside of "normal recreational conditions" they may not be covered by warranty. I am not amused. We had a couple of failures I'd attribute to manufacturing flaws before the Texas 200. First, the glue used to attach the hard rubber plugs in the ends of the akas failed in the first 90 days on both yaks. Second, the glue used to attach the roller furling drum to the mast failed on the least used of the two boats! This failure was discovered on the eve of the Texas 200. We were in a remote area and at the advice of a Hobie dealer we confered with via phone attempted to fix it with 5200. That did not work. One of our fellow participants (in fact, the proa sailor) offered some spare five minute epoxy he had on hand. We had acetone so cleaned up the 5200 and applied the epoxy at the conclusion of day 1 on the Texas 200. That did work.

It would seem to me that Hobie would appreciate the opportunity to see some accelerated wear items along with a throrough account of the conditions and how the equipment functioned and/or failed. Honoring the warranty seems a small price to pay for hundreds of miles of "field research".

My partner and I are NOT new to sailing in general and sailing multi hulls in particular. We are not new to the conditions in which we sailed the Texas 200. In addition, we own seven SOT kayaks betweens us from various manufacturers...a plastic armada. We may not be experts, but with 20+ years of sailing between us we are definitely not novices.

OK - enough venting. A complete picture album + detailed account of the event is forthcoming. I'll post a link here for some random event pictures. Thanks for all the forum input -we have been lurking on this site for some time now and really appreciated the suggestions and comments.

Here's a link to some pix of the event. Note the AI with the tramps appears to be loaded unevenly. Due to the more or less constant wind angle and velocity, it was necessary to carry an unbalanced load so she would sail flat.

Texas200 Pix


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 Post subject: Re: Texas 200
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:27 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:14 pm
Posts: 1886
Location: South Florida
Tupperware,

I'm not sure how your dealer can claim that you were sailing outside of "normal recreational conditions." While you may have sailed in exhausting conditions, from what I have read about the Texas 200, each day could be considered a typical sailing day.

My experience has been that Hobie is very reasonable about these things.

I'm looking forward to your "detailed account" with pictures.

Keith

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I sail: Biscayne Bay, Everglades to Cape Romano, Ft Desoto, Cedar Key

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 Post subject: Re: Texas 200
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 12:55 am 
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Hobie Team Member

Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:04 pm
Posts: 615
Location: Hawaii, Big Island
Glue failure on the furling drum is a problem.

Dealer fixed mine and another customer with West Systems G Flex. I suspect if you hadn't been in the race he would have done it for you.

Matt you might want to put in your dealer letters that 5200 doesn't work and that epoxy is the way to fly. Your engineers can give you some brand recommendations.

But why is the original glue failing?

Tupper ware . I look forward to your report.

aloha
Dan

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 Post subject: Re: Texas 200
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 10:36 am 
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Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:07 am
Posts: 3
Location: Texas Gulf Coast
AlohaDan wrote:
Glue failure on the furling drum is a problem.

Dealer fixed mine and another customer with West Systems G Flex. I suspect if you hadn't been in the race he would have done it for you.

Matt you might want to put in your dealer letters that 5200 doesn't work and that epoxy is the way to fly. Your engineers can give you some brand recommendations.

But why is the original glue failing?

Tupper ware . I look forward to your report.

aloha
Dan


Dan - the dealer we purchased the boats from was closed (it was a Sunday when we found the failure), so I went down the list of dealers we'd used for parts until I found one that was open. To their credit, they recommended Quick Set 5200. We were unable to find it on short notice and so far away from a dealer (by then we were also without transport) so went with the original. If the furler did nothing except furl the sail, it wouldn't have been so critical. Mast is at the dealer where we purchased the boats, so I expect this will be resolved soon.


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 Post subject: Re: Texas 200
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 10:55 am 
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Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:04 am
Posts: 54
Location: SOUTH WALES UK
Quote:
The dealer has suggested that since the boats were used outside of "normal recreational conditions" they may not be covered by warranty.


Tupperware,
If this kind of journey is outside of the warranty, then Hobie should remove the word "Adventure" from this boat's name.
I hope your dealer's attitude is different to Hobie's, as this is the kind of adventure I had in mind when considering buying the "Adventure Island". I suspect I am not alone in this.
I have a lot of learning to do yet though.
Nice photos. I can't wait for the full report.
Ger


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 Post subject: Re: Texas 200
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 11:40 am 
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Site Admin

Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 9025
Location: Oceanside, California
I'll wait for the report from the dealer before getting too excited. Hobie has NOT declined anything related to this report. We have yet to see a request for anything specific.

From the above... the furling drum issue is resolved if re-glued. That is simply the tension on a furled sail sheeted hard. This caused a twist failure to glue that was likely minimal. Once re-glued it is good to go.

The aka end cap is a simple fix.

We do expect that there will be normal wear and tear / maintenance required as with most products. In vehicles it is oil, water, air in the tires, tire wear, tune ups etc. In a sail boat, it is harder to define, but the same principle is there. We will fix it if it is other than that.

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Matt Miller
Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA


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 Post subject: Re: Texas 200
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 5:52 am 
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Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2005 7:56 pm
Posts: 23
People throw out the 'void your warranty' like hobie, or GM, or anyone else can just do that willy nilly.

The reality of the "Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act" is that they have to show that what you did, or what modifications you did, voided the warranty.

Simple example. Say I buy a new corvette. I then take it to a company who rebuilds the engine to make 200 more hp, puts in a racing 12 speed gear box and a quick change rear end. Now lets say a week later the radio stops working. GM has to reasonably prove that the modifications I made affected the radio.


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 Post subject: Re: Texas 200
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 6:33 am 
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Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:12 am
Posts: 419
Location: Florida
It is my experience that sometimes a local Hobie vendor/dealer is a little unsure how to approach a warranty issue. Sometimes they are not up to speed on the latest fixes/parts/hardware either. I can see a local dealer making a misstatement or being reluctant to commit to a warranty if he is unsure.

Fortunately Matt and the corporate Hobie team are there to clarify issues with the local dealer and provide the expertise and support that the local dealer may lack.

I have actually printed out items from this forum to bring to a dealer to make it easier for them when asking for parts or getting stuff like rudder upgrade lines.

Best advise is don't panic and allow the dealer and Hobie corporate to sort out your particular issue. Hobie always tries their best to make things right.


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