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 Post subject: Distances.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 9:36 am 
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Location: Shetland, UK
As an extreme novice still dreaming of buying his first AI or TI, I lie at night dreaming of trips i could do once I have got the hang of sailing and taming the beast. I was wonderign how you gague how far you travel in a day. Obviously it is down to wind speed, wind direction, tides and weight of craft etc but is there a simple calculation you can do that comes with a +/- error in it?

for example is it fair to say on average you could do 50km in a day if all the elements were in your favour or would it be more or less than that?

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 Post subject: Re: Distances.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:53 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2006 6:06 am
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Location: Turks and Caicos Islands
We carry a handheld GPS, with a set of marine maps installed.(Garmin BlueCharts). It gives you all kinds of info, including your speed, and how long it will take you to get to a given point at your current speed and direction, etc.

How long it will take to get to a specific point depends upon a lot of things, like wind direction and velocity, wave conditions, water currents, and your point of sail.

For example, last week we sailed our new TI to a small island about 7 miles away, in 10-12 kts of wind, beached the boat for lunch, and then sailed back. We were tacking on close reaches going up, and as the wind shifted a little during the afternoon, a broad reach and then a downwind run coming back. Two hours to get there, an hour to get back. About fifteen miles total in a little over three hours, etc.

Keep the sail down and have two of you peddaling, and it all changes.

Distance/velocity=time

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 Post subject: Re: Distances.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:57 am 
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Location: Ontario, Canada
50 km's seems like a LOT to me. Here are a few factor's to keep in mind. If the distance between point A and point B is 10 kms, you might do several extra kilometres if you're sailing, and the wind, or other weather isn't co-operating. So to start, are you looking for how far you can go in a day, from point A, to point B, or are you looking to determine how much ground (or water) you'll cover over the course of a day.

The second thing to consider is how long you'll be comfortable out on the water. I'm quite comfortable for up to 6 hours on the water, some days I can go longer, some days, I'm done within an hour. At six hours, you would have to average 8.33 kms per hour to go 50 kms. Technically that's possible, but I don't think there are many people on these boards who will average that speed for that long. I like sailing fast, but enjoy my boat the most when I sail fast, then slow down, then go fast again. I like to wander, and explore. If I had to spend six hours on the boat, and average 8.33 km/h I'd probably have less fun then I usually do.

Even going for six hours, I'll usually stop on an Island or beach, or even use my AI as an island, and stop to have a drink, a break, or a snack. Depending on the winds, you may not always be able to drink enough or snack enough in bigger wind and waves, so it's important to take breaks every now and then. The roller furling sail makes stopping anywhere a very easy thing to do.

I'm sure others will help you with what speeds they average. I've never really tracked my speed with any level of accuracy over time.

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 Post subject: Re: Distances.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 1:26 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:25 pm
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Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
Twerto wrote:
for example is it fair to say on average you could do 50km in a day if all the elements were in your favour or would it be more or less than that?

These guys did 90km one day when conditions were right. http://transparentseavoyage.com/
Bear in mind though that would be rare. I agree with augaug and gringo's comments.


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 Post subject: Re: Distances.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 6:05 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 10:43 am
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Location: Long Island NY
keep in mind that in most cases getting there also requires getting back ... and the wind can be a fickle thing - especially late afternoon with the sun getting low.

Fortunately we have an alternative power system but good planning and a bit of cautious thinking can keep you from being out in the dark with no lights.

A couple of times last year found me pedalling hard to beat the sunset. Much better feeling to arrive back near your launch and ride home a bit early and spend the last half hour or more sailing nearby

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 Post subject: Re: Distances.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 6:11 pm 
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Location: Calga NSW, Australia
PassWind wrote:
good planning and a bit of cautious thinking can keep you from being out in the dark with no lights.

Like carrying lights fr'instance.

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 Post subject: Re: Distances.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 7:20 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:14 pm
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Location: South Florida
My advice, carry lights every day--just part of your standard equipment.

I worry about the wind dying everytime I go out. Passwind is right, wind is fickle, especially late afternoon. It also frequently dies around noon--that happens when the winds are light, just ocean breezes.

When we are camping w/ typical 300# (near capacity) load, averaging 5 mph (8 km/hr) is pretty good. So, to do a 35 mile day (56 km) is a 7 hr trip. We have done it, but as our last major camp trip proved, that is atypical. On that trip, (link: http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=7276&p=134807#p134807), the first day, we had no wind (pedaled 11 mi--17.7 km); second day, we had unfavorable winds and dense fog, and we made 4 miles (6.4 km). The 3rd day, we had strong winds on our nose and quit after 4 mi. The 4th day conditions got worse--very strong headwinds (20+ mph--32+ km/hr), and we aborted the trip.

If you are just going out for a day sail and you have favorable winds, a 20 mi day is reasonable. If winds are light & variable, save yourself some frustration and don't get too far from home base. If you have headwinds, your 10 mi (16 km) trip can become 20 mi (32 km) because you have to tack off the wind.

Keith

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 Post subject: Re: Distances.
PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 2:33 am 
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Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 4:55 am
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Location: Shetland, UK
Thanks for all the feedback, I had two trips in mind that would be great to accomplish but reading this, one of them would be definately out the window. as it is just over 200km of open water, with nothing other than the odd oil rig to wave at as you go by. Shetland To Norway.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&q=f ... 249023&z=6

The other is about 25km over open water to. Shetland to Fair Isle and then Fair isle to Orkney which is another 20 - 25km. which could be doable but as you say probably far to dependant on weather, I know a couple of people that have tried to do it canoes but have always had to give up due to conditions changing :(

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&q=f ... 812256&z=8

anyway first challange is to get my hands on the AI/TI ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Distances.
PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 6:13 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:49 am
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Location: Point Lookout, Maryland
We did 51.5 km in 4.5 hours while we were down in the Florida Keys, and have come close to that figure a few times since. Our limits are bio breaks and food supplies.

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 Post subject: Re: Distances.
PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 11:20 am 
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Location: Ontario, Canada
whosyerbob wrote:
We did 51.5 km in 4.5 hours while we were down in the Florida Keys, and have come close to that figure a few times since. Our limits are bio breaks and food supplies.


Whosyerbob sums it up the best. The boat can do a lot. The bigger questions are, Can you? Should you? And will you have as much fun doing that as you would doing less ambitious trips. Food and water are important, when you're out there, and if something goes wrong over open water, you're on your own.

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 Post subject: Re: Distances.
PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 12:11 am 
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I'm with augaug!

For a while I have been planning trips, but until I have sorted things out I have only done 1 day trip as a practice for when I take the family out (don't want t risk them).

I use a Garmin Nuvi 500 (this has a boat mode and is waterproof - although I keep it in a dry bag). I then download it using a program I purchased on line for a few bucks; it is sooooo great logging your trips. My average speed has been about 10km/hr.

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 Post subject: Re: Distances.
PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 4:57 am 
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Location: Point Lookout, Maryland
I'm also with augaug on the "can you" and "should you" aspect.

Cindy and I have plotted and planned much longer trips. One would have been a multiple-day trip from Key West to Dry Tortugas via the Marquesas Keys and back, a total distance of some 216 miles. The other would have been a one-day trip from Point Lookout to Crisfield to Tangier Island and back, a total distance of some 70 miles.

In both cases, for us to do them safely together we would have required perfect wind and sea conditions for the entire trip and a lot of luck. In either scenario, if the wind had died, we would have been between a rock and a hard place.

Were I young and single, would I have done either trip? Yes on the shorter trip - dunno on the longer one. I did a lot of risky things when I was younger and might have jumped at the chance, but now that I'm older I measure risks a lot more thoroughly then I did when I was in my 20s and 30s.

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 Post subject: Re: Distances.
PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 6:18 am 
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Location: South Florida
Key West to the Dry Tortugas? That is a serious, serious open water crossing. Kayakers have died on that trip.

Keith

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 Post subject: Re: Distances.
PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 8:47 am 
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Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 11:46 am
Posts: 76
Location: sacramento
These longer trips seem just trouble and not fun. In front storage a side mount Toqueedo with additional battery. This equipment is over 2000$ The salt water version may be off the $ chart. I stay to fresh water lakes and use it often. I wish I had two. One for the peddle insertion also. Cannot afford the TI + trailer. Often have thoughts of TI with side mount and peddle insert to front, and continue to peddle from rear. I see that motors are not a popular option on this forum, as to lack of discussion. One member with a tricked out TI has posted to a small gas side mount. In the past would haul a 40# battery in front storage. Torqueedo has changed the way I enjoy the day on water, the motor can be dropped at day camp, no matter the size and used to speed return at late afternoon. Often side by side pulling my still paddling better half. Anyone who has AI can for sure, improve fun and security with Troqueedo of any model mounted anywhere. With just 200$ a 28# kota and sealed 40# battery can meet the side mount, drop off, sail around and use motor for return later. Keep body weight under 170, if possble....


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 Post subject: Re: Distances.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:27 am 
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Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 4:55 am
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Location: Shetland, UK
Thanks for all the advise, I think i was getting a bit over excited at the thought of the adventure more than the pratical side of things.

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We dont really grow up at all as we get older - we just get slightly better at behaving in public

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