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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:30 am 
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I bought my TI some two years ago and it came with the "old" twist and stow rudder. To keep the rudder down at high speeds it also had a little bungee on the rudder to tie the rudder to the "rudder holder".

When I purchased the TI I insisted that my dealer replaces the old twist and stow rudder with the (then) new 'kick up island rudder".

Since a year or so he now has the new kick up rudder on stock waiting for my advise to replace my old rudder...

Problem is that I am not too sure anymore if I really want to replace the my old rudder because I did not have any problems with it.

On the other hand - I also have no comparison...

So - does the kick up Island rudder give any SIGNIFICANT improvement on the sailing performance of the TI? If yes - in what sense? Improved upwind performance?

I heard that the rudder pins break more easily on the kick up rudder than the old twist and stow rudder...is that true?

Thanks in advance for all the expert's advise...

Peace
Serbi


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:06 am 
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Location: South Florida
Serbi, I can only speak from my experience with my AI (and my wife's AI.) On my boat, the new rudder is much, much better than the old Rube Goldberg twist-n-stow. I would not call it a "kick up" rudder--maybe I have missed something. Where did you get that name? I will tell you, on my boat it has been tough as nails. It has taken a real beating in the year or 2 I've had it.

Yes, it sails much better. It has a much larger surface than the old T-n-S. It is also symmetrical to the hull, so it turns equally side to side.

Keith

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:32 am 
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Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
serbi :
There is no comparison, the new rudder is way better on the TI, I would definately upgrade. I have had and used both extensively. I'm sure they will let you keep the old one (hang it on the wall 'Hobie art').
I think the only reason we break more rudder pins on the new rudder is more due to carelessness (at least in my case), I think all of the 3-4 rudder pin breaks I have had I can trace back to hitting the bottom while launching or coming in and not paying attention with the rudder locked down. The pin does what it's supposed to do (prevent damage elseware). If it breaks while out on the water sailing, it is way more likely that you damaged it hitting something before going out, and it happens to give out the rest of the way while out on the water, at least thats my circumstances.
I have found that if my rudder becomes tight and not as easy or responsive, chances are the pin is either broke on one end, or is about to give way. I always check it before going out now.
The whole system is now much larger and more rigid, so not as forgiving as the T&S.
Hope this helps
Bob


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:54 am 
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Location: Maui, Hawaii
I had absolutely no problems with the old Twist-n-stow rudder on my first TI, but the new strait up/down rudder is great! It took a little bit to remember to cleat/un-cleat the rudder UP line, but it is great on TI's if not a little (but great) overkill on the AI's.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:31 pm 
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Location: Calga NSW, Australia
KayakingBob wrote:
... it is great on TI's if not a little (but great) overkill on the AI's.

Bob, I don't think it's overkill on the AI's. It has transformed the AI's handling by eliminating its tendency to weather helm. I now find the boat handles much higher winds before needing to furl the sail, especially when sailing close hauled.
Also (less importantly), since the rudder continues to steer the boat a bit when it is uncleated and just flopping around in the water, I can show off and sail the boat right up onto the beach without using the paddle.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:38 pm 
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Location: South Florida
I agree, Chris.

Keith

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I sail: Biscayne Bay, Everglades to Cape Romano, Ft Desoto, Cedar Key

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:33 pm 
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Thanks for the feedback guys - appreciated.

Seems a total must to upgrade to the bigger rudder.

Peace
Serbi


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:07 pm 
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Location: Long Island NY
I've got AI Rudder Envy .. and thinking of upgrading my ride just to get the better rudder, but then I lose the V1 aka pin connectors and have to accept the robot arms

Is that a worthwhile trade-off ? Other than that, even with my boat being the first year AI ( '07 collector's edition ?) its still a fine machine. Its not even faded having lived under a cover .. but I do enjoy the faster side of sailing and the rudder inadequacies are prolly the only negative i wish was better

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'07 Hobie Adventure Island #1
'07 Hobie Adventure Island #2 Golden Papaya AI LadyJane
'06? Hobie Outback SUV


Last edited by PassWind on Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:16 pm 
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Location: Maui, Hawaii
PassWind wrote:
I've got AI Rudder Envy .. and thinking of upgrading my ride just to get the better rudder, but then I lose the V1 aka pin connectors and have to accept the robot arms

Is that a worthwhile trade-off ? Other than that, even with my boat being the first year AI ( '07 collector's edition ?) its still a fine machine.
You could keep your old aka and mount the new on your old hull. Might get a few more $'s with brand new aka on the old AI.

I have both old and new aka and the new ones are growing on me, but I still use the aka leash! :)

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:27 pm 
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Location: Long Island NY
Alfred hasn't yet wipped up an adapt-O-mount in the BatCave to supplant the twist and shout with the switchblade ?

.. and stop being an enabler, You with 4 Islands. We both know if I go new(er) I'd never let my first love leave me. I'd sell my wife's Outback :P

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'07 Hobie Adventure Island #1
'07 Hobie Adventure Island #2 Golden Papaya AI LadyJane
'06? Hobie Outback SUV


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:37 pm 
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Location: Kailua 96734
PassWind wrote:
Alfred hasn't yet wipped up an adapt-O-mount in the BatCave to supplant the twist and shout with the switchblade ?
Nope. But with the bigger Amas and Haka seating options on the Batboat, it sure would be nice to have a bigger, more reliable rudder. The pins do tend to break. :twisted:


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:02 pm 
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PassWind wrote:
.. and stop being an enabler, You with 4 Islands. We both know if I go new(er) I'd never let my first love leave me. I'd sell my wife's Outback :P
Alas, I am down to 2 AI's and a TI :wink: Just enough to fit on my double TI trailer.

At least you said you'd sell her... Outback :twisted:

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