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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:35 pm 
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Lol NOHUHU. I am happy that Greek language is spoken all around the world. But you are right. My English are not so good. I think that my girlfriend can cope with all the above you mentioned. :D
So how much water can the hull take in from the aft rudder lines? Do you mean that with the extra weight the stern will be underwater all the time??? :o .That is scary. Can you give me one more advice? Should I carry with me extra rudder pins and a water pump? What about those aka plastic screws? Are they important to carry onboard?
I noticed those aluminium Hakas build by Abisail12. He can sail very comfortably with two onboard. I think that this is a very good idea. You can sail, lay down and you do not need to use tramps.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:22 pm 
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Depending how far you go from shore and help may determine what you carry. I do recommend a hand pump, a sponge as well as small parts and the tools necessary to fix/replace them. If you are just sailing a 100 meters off the beach is far different (and requires different level of self-help) from sailing 5-10 kilometers off shore or for long distances as we do often here in Hawaii.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 6:47 pm 
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slygizos wrote:
So how much water can the hull take in from the aft rudder lines? Do you mean that with the extra weight the stern will be underwater all the time??? :o .That is scary. Can you give me one more advice? Should I carry with me extra rudder pins and a water pump? What about those aka plastic screws? Are they important to carry onboard?
I noticed those aluminium Hakas build by Abisail12. He can sail very comfortably with two onboard. I think that this is a very good idea. You can sail, lay down and you do not need to use tramps.
I have seen AI hulls half flooded with 2 people aboard and the boat was not sailable, so you never want to let things get to this point. I rescued the heavier passenger on my tramps and then we had to tack upwind through a narrow channel and surf. It was very difficult crossing the wind.

When the stern is submerged for long periods due to too much weight, it can fill the hull very quickly. At that point, the AI stops being a sailboat and becomes a submarine. It will do what the waves and current tell it to do, rather than following the sail and rudder. One person can still guide a flooded boat to land if they are skilled (although it will be too heavy to lift) but if 2 are aboard, it will drift and flounder.

Tramps distribute the excess weight better than the Hakas and are a safer, more comfortable choice for your passenger. The next best thing, in my opinion, would be your lady on the tramps and you on a quarter deck. Her weight toward the front and yours toward the back.

All this will make sense when you try it, so don't worry too much now. Just learn to sail poli kala by yourself before you take her out.

And watch out for pirates. :lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 7:24 pm 
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Nohuhu, today I stopped by the kayak shop and tested the fit of the 2013 TI amas on a 2013 AI. Out of curiosity, I weight 220 and can"t sit out on the traps without dragging my but in the water. Would the TI amas on a AI setup allow someone my size to actually use the traps to sit on?

To use the TI ama, it appears that I will need to....
1. Build an adapter to extend the the forward aka by 2 inches so that the aka brace sits deeper and securely into the ama.

2. Tighten the ama bungees or use a Tom Kirkman type ama bungee retention yoke.

The difference in the distance between aka holes (TI vs AI) means that the amas point slightly outward at the bow end. Did the batboat do that too and was it an issue? What was your final impression on the necessity of reinforcing the forward aka brace and akas?

I'm looking for more stability. I've come too close to capsizing twice. Plan on tethering to boat now even though I imagine that carries some risk as well.

Are you still happy with and using the batboat or did you go the way of the TI?


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:50 pm 
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A single TI Ama would float your weight so it would provide plenty of lift. If stabilized, it would sail like it was on rails, even with some toe out. (Only one Ama buries at a time, if at all).

It has not been an issue on the BatBoat and she carries a full wing, big Hakas, tons of BatTools, rocket launchers, etc.

Yes, it does require bracing, at least when sailing offshore in our little pacific bathtub. When it's all tied together with the seating, it's a very solid feeling ride. But if you just graft TI pontoons on the AI, it will introduce more wobble.

Remember too, we are using the older hull with pinned Akas - I imagine the new joints would wobble more. Not sure, but you could tell us.

Bracing also distributes the added stresses of those longer, more buoyant Amas.

Vetgam, if you are satisfied with the hull balance using your quarterdeck, I would suggest just adding lightweight Hakas to your boat, or how about extending your PVC concept seating all the way round?

The only disadvantage of the BatBoat is the lack of an improved rudder, to round out the upgrades.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:54 pm 
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That might be the solution. If I built a sealed frame using 2 inch PVC I might just get the extra buoyancy I'm looking for to give me stability and I can just move a Jim Bouy cushion around as needed. By leaving it naked and minimizing cushions, I don't have to worry about the wind getting underneath and creating lift like is currently happening with the tramps. Can't hurt to give it a try.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 11:02 pm 
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If you do decide to use TI ama on an AI, if you also replace 2 aka (front?) with TI aka it should work with little to no modifications. I'm hoping to try that soon myself.

Building sealed PVC parts is good for weight verses strength and cost, but unless it's floating on the water it will add no extra flotation to the AI while it is in place on the hull.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:36 am 
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Thank you all guys. Your help is much appreciated. I will have my AI in ten days so I will report back when I place my boat in the water for the first time. I will try to follow your advices. Thank you again. :D


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:03 am 
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I'll have to try substituting the TI aka and check to see if the TI uses a larger diameter aka brace. It so, I may not need to add extra support along the front akas. I suspect the TI aka is longer though and may aggravate the toe out issue. Good thought to give that a try.

I"m thinking about running a larger PVC pipe under the akas just medial to the ama and then heat bending the PVC up and over the akas at the ends and creating the structure for the PVC haka on top. The idea being that most of the time the PVC is not offering any buoyancy except it you boat tries to submarine the amas, sit out on the haka or you experience a near capsize. I'm going to get into some resistance issues with the PVC and this may mute the whole project but I won't know that if I don't give it a shot.

I could consider using smaller PVC with some flotation device like pool noodle surrounding PVC for the section of PVC that runs under the akas and along the amas.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:26 am 
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Maybe one last question. :) What is the weight of the two trampolines for the AI?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:41 am 
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I would guess around 4lb each. Around 6lb when they are wet. Perhaps a little more.

They weigh <1/2 what a lightweight set of Hakas does. Tramps are rated to carry 200lb each but you must be careful not to put all that weight in one area. It must be distributed.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:34 pm 
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Greg, if you really want additional, removable backup floatation on the Amas, it could be done cheaply.

Add a 1" or less sealed PVC pipe (inside a thick pool noodle) between the Aka bars, directly above the Ama. Mounting would not require making holes in your plastic Amas. It could be pinned to the aka collar or you could just use a loop of spectra under the collar. The middle could be bungeed to the Ama handle.

The idea is that once the Ama submerges, the noodle flotation begins. It won't effect general sailing much. Probably just folding.

So, it's like a life preserver for your Amas. :wink: This could also be used as a safety feature on loaded expedition boats.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:36 pm 
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Thank you very much NOHUHU. I should try to learn to sail first... Although, I have to admit that your advises were more than useful. I will report back soon.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:52 pm 
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The cheaper pool noodle idea is looking like the best option. Price of two TI amas and akas comes to $1250. The more I thought about the PVC haka the less excited I got about it. I guess not everthing can be solved with either PVC or duck tape. :D


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:36 pm 
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Dirt cheap! And you can likely match noodle color to your boat.

Will look so much nicer that tying empty milk jugs to your Ama padeyes. :mrgreen:


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