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 Post subject: noob sailing questons
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 1:25 am 
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Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2013 7:16 pm
Posts: 13
im close to purchasing a hobie tandem island (waiting for new fertilizer for the money tree)

so while i pass the time from pay day to pay day, im trying to squeeze as much knowledge to feed the habit.

first of all:
what is the extra (second) sail called at the front of some sailing craft? i have seen them installed on some peoples AI'S and TI's.
are these worth the effort?


also, does anyone have some good photos of alternative rudder control setups?
i want to be able to control the rudder from the rear seat, and both left and right tramps.
same oes for the furling and reefing? lines, so i can control them while on the tramps.

what are some modifications people have done for ease of use and to make their islands faster??

all things being normal, what sort of speeds can i expect out of a tandem island??

how hard are these to roll?? and on the flip side, how hard are they to recover the right way up?

if this happens in deep water, what is the chance of breaking the mast in a roll?


and are these craft capable of open water use?


cheers
joel


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 10:12 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:14 pm
Posts: 1910
Location: South Florida
Joel, I was out of town when you posted this and just noticed it today. I don't own a TI so can't answer some of your questions.

I'll take your last first, yes, these boats (AI/TI) can be used in open water. They are tough boats (I think the AI is tougher than the TI, but I may get some pushback on that. Things break on the TI; they seem to break less on an AI.) At the same time, if you are going out 5-10 mi, you need to give some thought to how you are going to get back if the wind dies or comes up so strong you get pushed out further. I'm usually not offshore by more than 2 miles, and don't worry too much about it, but others add some form of motor.

These boats are extremely stable. Of course, if (1) you are in deep water with steep waves, you might flip one--it has been done. (2) If you should swamp your boat, it becomes much easier for a gust of wind to tip you over--you are already half to 3/4s under water before the gust. I've never flipped and never practiced righting my boat. But, you are going to do things like collapsing an ama and perhaps releasing the sail before attempting to right your boat. You have to be very careful not too lose your boat in such conditions. Many people use a leash to hang onto their boat if they go over or fall off the tramp or haka.

Break the mast on a flip--don't know, but probably not likely.

The extra sail in front: a jib. Some people like Fusioneng and CaptnChaos have done a lot of work with jibs. Personally, I like to keep my boat simple, and I'm never going to fool around with a jib. People put jibs on to get more speed from their boats, especially under light wind conditions. My view: if you want a fast boat, get a power boat. Still Fusioneng's work with wing sails is impressive. Again, my view, I don't sail in light winds if I can avoid them. So, a jib and similar inventions don't seem important to me. As you know, I do multi-day camp trips. My goal is to get to my next camp. Speed, while important, is a secondary goal.

Hobie sells a hiking stick to control the steering handle (tiller) from the tramps or haka. I don't know what people do about alternate rudder controls or how they control their sails when on the tramps or hakas. Usually when you are hiking out, winds are pretty strong, which allows you to set your sails and only worry about hiking out to keep your boat as level as possible (that is your best option for speed.)

Keith

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I sail: Biscayne Bay, Everglades to Cape Romano, Ft Desoto, Cedar Key

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:22 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:58 am
Posts: 1557
Location: Forster, NSW, Australia
Joel,
Here's my 10 cents' worth.

I am a fat old bastard with a crook back, so moving around on deck was never an option for me. So I sit on my skipper seat up front on my TI, and have a ball! I just spent 2 days on Port Stephens, pedalling for hours on day one, but screaming around today with half the sail reefed. My Lowrance plotter showed a peak speed to windward of 7.8 knots, not too shabby, although running into waves sent buckets of water at my face and over my head.

I can understand your enthusiasm to sit out to windward, but my experience is that you get so much fun for mile wherever you sit, to a large extent you can forget the typical off the beach sailing scenario.

As for stability, I have tested, and a TI ama needs 150kg downwards force to push it til the top is level with the water. That is a LOT of resistance to heeling!

The biggest secret to going fast iwth a TI (and probably an AI as well) is to furl the sail rather than stagger on thinking you are going fast when you are not. Today, reefing the sail halfway, with no other changes at all, increased my average speed by a whole knot, as the hull sliced through the waves rather than smacking them. Hard to explain, but my plotter doesn't lie.

You can control mainsheet trim and steering from either seat. Frankly, (and this is based on a fair amount of experience sailing quarter tonners and J24s) I generally sail with the mainsheet cleated, not touching it through tacks, and concentrating my efforts to passing through waves with minimal fuss and loss of pointing angle, and usually only playing with it when off the wind. As Keith mentioned, Hobie now make a hiking stick for Islands so you can steer from outside the seats

You will also often find that it is worth pedalling the Miragedrive in at least the following sailing situations:
Tacking in really light conditions, to enable you to smoothly glide through to the other tack
Pedalling like buggery when tacking in strong winds, to avoid being pinned in irons and discovering that you rudder is now working in the opposite sense when you start going backwards!
If you are having trouble clearing an object to windward and do not wish to tack (or your path on the other tack is blocked), you can pedal vigorously and help the sail to point higher.

While some sailors take the Miragedrive out and fit the blocking piece for less drag, the above scenarios tend to make things busier if you try to also use these techniques, while sitting out.

In summary, it is easy to see shortcomings in the performance of the Islands when compared to other off the beach sailboats, but versatility is the name of the game for these unusual craft, probable best demonstrated by three of us last night. In a sheltered bay in Port Stephens, Stringy set up his tent on four padded hakas beneath his "powerboat" bimini on his AI, Slaughter slept in his hammock suspended over his AI, while I put up a tent on shore. Stringy brewed up numerous coffees for us, and we each had small butane stoves for food cooking and eskies for keeping stuff cold. Try all that on a Hobie 16!

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM"
www.scenefromabove.com.au


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:20 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:29 pm
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Location: High Point, NC
No doubt that flat is fast. This is why furling up a bit of sail can actually allow you to go faster on very windy days. Keeping the full sail out and having an ama buried up to and beyond the aka arms is exciting and wet, but even though it may feel faster, it rarely is.

The ability to furl the sail to whatever degree you wish is one of the very best features of the Island boats. The only drawback is that at some point you wrap up the telltales and won't have them available for trimming the sail, but in those instances there's probably enough wind that it doesn't matter much - you can go plenty fast anyway.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:27 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2013 7:16 pm
Posts: 13
thanks lads,
plenty of great info, yep versatility is definitely the name of the game!
i reckon i will just keep it simple.
cheers
joel


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