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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:18 am 
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I am considering a 2 year old TI and was curious as to if there were any recent changes to the TI that would be better if I puchased new boat instead. Its a basic red boat in good shape with the option to but the cradled trailer and tramps for an extra price if I want them.

What would be a decent buy on a boat like this not including the trailer?
What about with the trailer?

Thanks in advance!!


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:46 am 
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Location: Forster, NSW, Australia
av8erdunn wrote:
I am considering a 2 year old TI and was curious as to if there were any recent changes to the TI that would be better if I puchased new boat instead. Its a basic red boat in good shape with the option to but the cradled trailer and tramps for an extra price if I want them.

What would be a decent buy on a boat like this not including the trailer?
What about with the trailer?

Thanks in advance!!

There have been no major changes to the TI in the past two years, so given no serious wear, it all depends on price. As you haven't mentioned your location, I can't help you on that aspect, sorry.

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2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM"
www.scenefromabove.com.au


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:20 am 
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tonystott wrote:
av8erdunn wrote:
I am considering a 2 year old TI and was curious as to if there were any recent changes to the TI that would be better if I puchased new boat instead. Its a basic red boat in good shape with the option to but the cradled trailer and tramps for an extra price if I want them.

What would be a decent buy on a boat like this not including the trailer?
What about with the trailer?

Thanks in advance!!

There have been no major changes to the TI in the past two years, so given no serious wear, it all depends on price. As you haven't mentioned your location, I can't help you on that aspect, sorry.



I am on the gulf coast in Alabama. 30 minutes to Gulf Shores and an hour to Pensacola Beach.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:33 am 
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Last year I was offered a 2008 TI with tramps and a cover for $3800. I thought that was reasonable, but ended up buying a AI instead. Look for saltwater corrosion on used boats.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:02 am 
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av8erdunn:
It's my belief that by the 2012 model year Hobie had all the design tweaked enough that pretty much any 2012 and up model is the preferred model to get. They have the Mast brace weld problem fixed, the new stronger glued knuckles on the AKA bars, the larger 3/8 dia bungies on the AMA's, and the newer mirage drives (with the guide pins to make it easier to install the mirage drives. In 2012 they also added the black sleeves in the front scupper cart holes on the hull, fixing the scupper cart problem where the scupper carts were poking through the sides of the scupper holes.
All the aluminum by 2012 (like the AKA bars) was anodized vs painted, and they hold up much better. The new and better rudder system came factory installed (no need to retrofit a new rudder on). Also by then they had gone to the black nylon sail bag for the main sail vs the old silver tarp material (way nicer).

2012 was the best year for the mirage drives, you will likely have little to no trouble with them. On the newest generation mirage drives (2013 and up), they changed the design on the mirage drives and there is a huge breakage problem going on right now (personally I would steer away from any of the newer mirage drives (like the plague), at least until Hobie fixes the problem (and they will).

Look for sun and salt damage on the hull, some tell tales are the four mesh pocket covers in the cockpits, it they are heavily faded it means the boat was left out in the sun too much and in my opinion was not stored properly.

If all the rivet heats have a white crust on them, and the stainless fitting are all rusty, this means the boat was not rinsed off properly after each use in salt water (very important). Also the black anodized AKA bars would look stained and crappy looking. All signs of someone who didn't take care of the boat at all. Though not a show stopper, it should effect price.

The mirage drives should not be all cut up with a salt film all over them and bad rust on the stainless fittings. Also work the pedals and make sure it is not looser than a goose with oval holes on the bearing surfaces (all signs that the mirage drive was abused and not cleaned and maintained properly. The need to be cleaned and lubricated with something like WD-40 once in a while. Though everything is repairable, worn out drives will effect price (somebody has to fix them and repair is not inexpensive).

Open the sail, look for cracks in the clear mylar, and the mylar should be clear and there should be no rips of heavily worn areas in the sail. The sail is the most expensive component on the boat, If allowed to just flutter in the wind it can be trashed in under five minutes.

The hull needs to be inspected carefully for bad gouges and scraped away areas on the bow and tail caused by dragging the boat across parking lots (careless). The bottom of the boat is soft polyethylene and will get scratched even with just moderate use. This is not a problem as long as it's not excessive, most is easily repaired though but somebody has to do the work to fix it up and it takes time, so excessive scratches on the boat affects price also. Always water test the boat before buying. A little water in the hull is normal (none are ever completely dry), but excessive water in the hull (more than a quart) after a normal outing in normal conditions, (ie... fairly small waves (under 1.5 ft), with a few splashes over the hatch from boat wakes, etc are normal conditions), excessive water in the hull are signs of a leak. AI's are typically a little leakier than TI's.

Look at the gaskets in the round hatch covers and the gaskets on the main hatch, if they were cared for there shouldn't be vertical scratches in the rubber gaskets and crud built up around the seals, and they shouldn't look all dried out and brown (the brown is sun and heat damage without adequate conditioning (armorall, 303 or hobie uv protectant spray applied periodically)

My opinion if a 2012 boat is in good condition following the Hobie want ads, it looks like a 2012 TI would go for around .70% to .75% of the current new price.
Actually I see the best deals when buying the boat with the trailer, tramps, scupper carts, and all the accessories included. Basically your buying the whole works (trailer and all) for about the same as the new price for a new boat alone. Trailers, tramps, scupper carts, PFD's, anchors, etc are not cheap and need to be figured and factored in when buying a new boat. Often a great incentive to buy used over new as long as the boat is in good condition.

The TI's design itself is pretty mature, and having that 2 yr warranty isn't as much of a concern as it was in the early model years, where a lot of changes were going on.

We very seldom see hull failures anymore, and Hobie has a very fair exchange program for damaged out of warranty hulls. It's based on age of the boat, and shipping costs from California, in my opinion it's as fair as can be as they can't possibly provide free hulls forever, and the actual number of hull failures from normal use is probably under .1 percent these days. The designs are very mature and reliable (unlike the very early years of Hobie kayaks, where you really needed that 2 yr warranty (I'm sure all the old timers remember all that, not really a problem anymore)).

Hobie's kayaks, adventure boats, and sailboats, plus their service and support are un-equaled and un-matched in the industry (bar none), and worth every penny paid for the value and quality you are getting, and hold their value better than anything else out there.

I have never seen better brand loyalty and support to any other product out there, most every Hobie owner I know would never consider buying anything else.

Hope this helps you
Bob


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:55 am 
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:shock: WOW!!!!!

Thanks for the lengthy reply.
I am hoping to go look at it this weekend if all goes well and he doesnt sell it.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:24 am 
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Location: Forster, NSW, Australia
Excellent buyers advice Bob! My only query is the timing of the addition of the black insert in the scuppers. I took delivery on my TI in June12, and it doesn't have the inserts (not an issue as I use a trailer)
Tony

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2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM"
www.scenefromabove.com.au


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:07 pm 
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Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
Tony:
I'm on my third TI now, my 2010 and 2011 models didn't have the scupper re-enforcement either. The 2012 that I got in July 2012 had the black tubes in the scupper holes. I ordered mine from the dealer (he didn't have the color I wanted in stock) and it took a couple weeks to arrive so I assume it was fresh from the factory ( still warm from molding (lol)). I believe that was one of the many little running changes to production, most were never announced ( no need really ).

That's one reason I am such a staunch supporter of their products. When I wrecked my 2010 hull just pulling my boat out of the water ( in front of the dealer (embarrassing)), he called Hobie from his cell and a new hull was on the truck and on it's way from the factory before I got home. The new 2011 replacement hull (complete hull) arrived a week later and the dealer installed all the hardware and we were on our way within an hour, we actually left from their store on a two week trip to our other house in Key West where we sailed pretty much every day on the new hull, talk about great customer service at Economy Tackle in Sarasota, these guys are the absolute best I have ever encountered, and really know their stuff.
As soon as we got back home I wanted to make sure I never wrecked a hull again, so I took some simple 1" PVC tubing and glued it into the scupper holes, I posted my fix on this forum, thinking it might help others who might accidentally wreck their hulls the same way I did inadvertently. And that was the end of it, I was surprised to see Hobie implement the fix on most of their kayak line as running changes.
Actually every improvement suggestion I have ever made on the forum appears to have been implemented onto the TI's, this tells me Hobie does listen to us on the forums, and is very earnest about improving their product (well everything except the jib option (LOL)).
My opinion is the TI is now a first class really well made boat with really no major issues or problems, and well worth the value ( I really mean that). On all my past Hobies (7 alltogether) I was always very concerned that they always be under the two year warranty, once that was close to expiring I would typically sell and buy new. I'll be perfectly honest, I feel all of Hobies Mirage boats have improved so much in the last eight years I am no longer concerned if my TI warranty expires in July, the boat works great I don't expect to have any issues or problems, and will just keep using this boat for the foreseeable future (still holding my breath waiting for the SUPER tandem Island to come out with a CE 'C' rating, with jib, spinnaker, and motor mounting options, hardened for off shore use (LOL, I'm turning blue)). In the mean time I'll continue to just use my self hardened version, those that know me know I use the heck out of my boats and push them to the hilt ( ie... Spinnakers, wing jibs, motors, hydrofoils, etc) in sometimes pretty nasty off shore conditions. In my opinion buying used is now a very viable option for any mirage type boat, where 3 yrs ago I would always recommend people only buy new (with warranty), but as always buyer beware, always a lot of scammers out there especially on places like craigslist, if uncomfortable work with Hobie dealers on trade in's or demo boats if you can't afford new, and watch the want ad's on this forum.
Bob
Bob


Last edited by fusioneng on Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:40 pm 
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I guess we are looking at a likely timeframe for the running change to have been done after my TI got shipped to Oz then, and obviously before yours. 8) 8)

I don't mind them doing running changes, as it means more people get the benefit, rather than only those who wait for the next model year launch

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2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM"
www.scenefromabove.com.au


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:09 pm 
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Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
Tony:
That's another cool thing about Hobie, If someone has a 2010 model, they can buy all the upgraded components online and upgrade their older model to pretty much the latest stuff if they want (usually no need though, the old stuff work fine). Things like the new better welded AKA mast mount, the new and improved AKA bars, the new rudder system (though I'm sure all have been upgraded by now), etc. Also they only need to research back into these forums to find where users made self improvements ( like Toms Double bungy idea), or all the fantastic HAKA systems out there, etc.
Cool stuff
Bob


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:19 pm 
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av8erdunn wrote:
:shock: WOW!!!!!

Thanks for the lengthy reply.
I am hoping to go look at it this weekend if all goes well and he doesnt sell it.
:lol: Dunn, meet Bob -Bob, Dunn.

I would follow Fusions advice. Mirage drives are a tricky thing, though. They are high wear and high maintenance items. I've had a new pair where the paint looked like garbage after 1 year's use and constant cleaning/lubing. All peeled and oxidized but they worked fine.

And yet they are bound to break or be run aground by the best of us. Fins rip, cables break on their own, they strip gears regularly under normal stress, etc. Expect this, and buy some spare parts before you take her offshore. And have the right tools.

I'd even advise you to strip the whole thing down and learn how to put it together. Sooner or later the skill will come in handy.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:43 pm 
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After talking with the guy he said he bought it at the end of 11 so would that be an 11 or 12? He has spray skirts,ntramps trailer with cradles, live well fish finder, and a few other things that I can't remember. He says $5200 for everything. He also has a torqeedo which I could probably get for $6000 for everything. How's that sound? Do they have a Vin number to tell the exact year of the boat? I was hoping to get a 12 so they would have the welded mast mount and anodized ama supports and etc.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:06 pm 
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av8erdunn :
Your kidding right, I would give my first born to get an Evolve, that's in my opinion the deal of a lifetime. Hobies model years starts in September. The hull HID number is engraved onto the rear right side of the hull, it tells you everything about the boat including the date of manufacture.
Chances are it has the anodized AKA bars (only the first few months of 2011 had the painted bars (another running change)). If you really want the double welded AKA mast mount (you probably don't really need it, by mid 2011 they had their factory welding problems pretty much fixed anyway. If you really want a double welded ones you just purchase one of the latest double welded mast mounts on line if you really have to have one (part number 79531201 XBAR FWD ASSY you can get it here ( http://www.backyardboats.com/Store/Part ... facturer=1) for $178 bucks, I wouldn't bother unless your other one breaks (it won't)

If he has an evolve it's likely he has the boat registered and titled as well, (all good), if not you need to try to get the certificate of origin ( I can't remember the exact document name), that is needed and only available from the original dealer if you ever plan to register the boat (anything with a motor (Evolve) has to be registered in pretty much all states). If you can get a photocopy of his original sales receipt, it also helps a lot (at least in florida if you can't prove sales tax was paid originally, you have to pay it again (ouch).


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:13 pm 
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He has the title to the boat so no issues there. As far as the evolve goes, how often do you feel it would be used? Basicly if you had it would you use it often considering the range isn't that great for going in the gulf? So the price is about right for the boat even without the evolve if its in good shape?

Thanks for the help!


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:58 pm 
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@av8erdun,

if you have a torqueedo and you are into fishing you will use it probably every time you go out.

I purchased the evolve last year with the purpose to use it for trolling early mornings when the wind did not pick up yet. I ended up bringing it with me everytime I go out, even when the wind is good.

When trolling it is crucial to sail above structure and along the reef edges and droppoffs and with the evolve running at low speed while under sail you need to tack way less (u can go more against the wind) and do not depend so much on the wind direction and it's far more easy to stay on the direction YOU want to go (and not where the wind direction is forcing you to go).

The Evolve is a great product which increases the fun factor of my TI big time (I doubled my catch rate and can spend more time on the fishing hot spots because you worry less to get home safely with a motor), however they are quite sensible. I am using mine since one year and had two issues with it, one time a software issue (which was fixed under warranty), another time the motor caught a fishing line (my fault) which I couldn't remove completely resulting in water getting into the engine forcing me to replace the motor (cheaper getting a new one than having it repaired).

Repairs of the Evolve can't be done by yourself, so it would help if you live near to a Torqueedo service center because chances are - sooner or later - you need to send the motor for repairs.

My 2 cents
Peace
Serbi


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