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PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 7:37 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:00 pm
Posts: 49
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
REPORT:

First time solo sailing....went to Cedar Key with little wind, much sun and a brand new (used) 2012 Hobie AI.

Went very slow, but fairly smooth for the first few scorching hours. I sailed from the town beach/dock north around the outside of North key with the intention of doing a wide loop around the isles, stopping on each one (that wasn't off limits due to nesting season) for pics.


Progress was slow due to lack of wind and my lack of experience in harnessing the wind, but I was enjoying the sunburn.


That is, until my rudder line popped.


At that point, I was only trying to make it to shore as quickly as I could before I got caught under the boiling storm clouds that were rolling in my general direction (they ended up dumping the sheets just S/SW of my 20).

I noticed how very hard it was to steer without a rudder or daggerboard (the water was VERY shallow most of the way back).

Tired and sore I arrived on shore, and loading the boat back onto the top of my SUV was pure hard work. After a long shower I treated myself to the best tasting beer(s) and grouper sandwich. EVERYTHING seems to taste better after such a long, physical grind.

All in all, I have to say that despite the unexpected close call, I really enjoyed my day on the water. Next time I will sleep in a little bit, wait for the afternoon storm to pass and get on the water when it is much cooler and there is (hopefully) still some residual wind....the added plus of this plan is to catch what should be an awesome sunset on the water.

Three questions:

1: Is it my own failure or is it in the inherent nature of sailing an AI that the boat wants to constantly take a hard right turn whether I'm using the sails or the Mirage pedals? I had to dig my paddle hard down on the left side whilst pedalling/sailing the whole way back just to try to maintain a straight heading.

2: Is there not a mod out there somewhere that will provide for a manual back-up steerable rudder made out of PVC or something? I haven't been able to find a solution for that.

3: I had the traditional Hobie backache after the trip. The upgraded seat that I have on my Outback helps some, but not enough. What is the current aftermarket answer for this?

I thank everyone in advance for taking the time to respond and share your experience and knowledge with me.

What say ye folk?


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:25 pm 
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As far as for rudder alternatives Im not certain but for back pain the therapeutica back support is THE BEST thing I have found by far. I went from aching in my lower back after maybe 10 min to being able to go ALL DAY. The support is covered with foam and material and gets very wet but I ripped all of the foam and material off and now use just the underlying plastic and it still works great. It also fits right over the hobie seat perfectly.

http://www.amazon.com/Innovative-SDA301 ... ck+support


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:32 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:21 pm
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Location: Maui, Hawaii
lboiv001 wrote:
1: Is it my own failure or is it in the inherent nature of sailing an AI that the boat wants to constantly take a hard right turn whether I'm using the sails or the Mirage pedals? I had to dig my paddle hard down on the left side whilst pedalling/sailing the whole way back just to try to maintain a straight heading.

You probably did not have the rudder cleated down, or not cleated tight enough. If not held down tight it will do that.

There are backup steering mods on this sight, but on most points of sail you can rudder with a single strait-blade paddle (I prefer with a "T" handle) it just takes practice.

Good luck, and Welcome to Hobie Island sailing!

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http://KayakingBob.com - - - - - Hobie Island Sailing since 2006 - - - - - 2011 & 2012 Hobie AIs and a 2012 TI


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 1:51 am 
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Joined: Fri May 08, 2009 5:06 am
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Location: Lake Macquarie NSW AUSTRALIA
We have all had similar issues lboiv001 at one stage or another. Prior to the latest rudder design, the old twist and stow rudders had design problems that lead to me being stranded many a time.

As far as comfort, I'm a strong advocate of the skipper seat. There are plenty of different designs out there. Here is mine........ viewtopic.php?f=69&t=48290&hilit=skipper+seat........but it may be too difficult if you don't have a pipe bender. If you do a search on this forum I'm sure you'll see a design that may suit.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 5:53 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:14 pm
Posts: 1912
Location: South Florida
Iboiv001--Sorry to hear you had a bad experience on your first time out--it shouldn't be that way. As you found out, the area within 4 mi around Cedar Key is shallow except in the channels. It is very difficult to use a paddle as a rudder if you have a full sail up in significant wind--just too much sail power to control with your makeshift rudder.

Coincidentally, another thread "Rudder Loss Solutions" has been revived this weekend http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=47343 You might check that out. It appears that you have an AI and not a TI. True?

Why did your 1000#-test rudder line break (popped)? It has happened to others, and I just don't understand what is going on.

One thing you want to do on your next trip--maybe in your back yard before--make sure you are cleating the "down" rudder line very hard. That is, as KB has said, the rudder line must be pulled tight (hard) before cleating. If the rudder is not pulled down hard, it drifts up, trails horizontally behind the stern, and makes turning the tiller very difficult (can this break a rudder line?) Since the rudder is not deployed properly, wind helm--turning into the wind--is the result. When cleated properly, you should not be able to manually lift the rudder up towards horizontal.

Best wishes that your next trip will be totally successful.

Keith

PS If you have room, I strongly recommend a trailer for hauling your AI. It makes life for the AI/TI sailor much simpler. Also, be sure you cinch your Hobie seat up so that it supports your lower back. Both my wife and I use the Hobie seat and have not experienced back problems--from the seat, that is. Now lifting an AI/TI onto your car, that is another proposition.

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I sail: Biscayne Bay, Everglades to Cape Romano, Ft Desoto, Cedar Key

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 7:39 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:00 pm
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Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Chekika wrote:
Coincidentally, another thread "Rudder Loss Solutions" has been revived this weekend http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=47343 You might check that out. It appears that you have an AI and not a TI. True?

Why did your 1000#-test rudder line break (popped)? It has happened to others, and I just don't understand what is going on.



It's an AI, which I bought used, and which was in excellent shape except, obviously, for the rudder line. I just posted on the 'Rudder Loss Solutions' thread the other night, and it is a helpful thread.....I'm just surprised that there is not more discussion on this specific subject.

I wouldn't all it a bad trip; I still enjoyed myself despite the setback. It was a helpful learning experience. I think you are right about the T-bar rudder....I will have to investigate this option more.

Thanks, guys, for the seat option links....that makes the search sooo much easier. I have scoured forums looking for a plausible backup rudder solution, and besides the one(s) mentioned, the seem to be rather scarce, surprisingly.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 7:48 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:00 pm
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Location: Jacksonville, Florida
jeffreydc wrote:
As far as for rudder alternatives Im not certain but for back pain the therapeutica back support is THE BEST thing I have found by far. I went from aching in my lower back after maybe 10 min to being able to go ALL DAY. The support is covered with foam and material and gets very wet but I ripped all of the foam and material off and now use just the underlying plastic and it still works great. It also fits right over the hobie seat perfectly.

http://www.amazon.com/Innovative-SDA301 ... ck+support



How did you get it to fit over the seat - by laying it over the top or fastening/securing it to the seat? If you have pics that would be excellent.

The Hobie seat is not very firmly anchored into the deck....I would think there would be additional modificatioon needed, but this looks like a very good option to consider. Thanks for the info.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 7:52 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:00 pm
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Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Slaughter wrote:
We have all had similar issues lboiv001 at one stage or another. Prior to the latest rudder design, the old twist and stow rudders had design problems that lead to me being stranded many a time.

As far as comfort, I'm a strong advocate of the skipper seat. There are plenty of different designs out there. Here is mine........ viewtopic.php?f=69&t=48290&hilit=skipper+seat........but it may be too difficult if you don't have a pipe bender. If you do a search on this forum I'm sure you'll see a design that may suit.



Thanks for this. This looks like a good option for those of us without enough craftmanship skill to do this....
viewtopic.php?f=71&t=47254&hilit=quarterdeck

I was afraid I would botch that project or risk damaging the scupper holes with the suggestion in the above link, but I suppose any mod carries risks, right?


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 12:27 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:00 pm
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Location: Jacksonville, Florida
I must say that Skipper seat looks very nice......thanks for the idea and the reply!


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 1:27 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 8:58 am
Posts: 25
lboiv001 wrote:
jeffreydc wrote:
As far as for rudder alternatives Im not certain but for back pain the therapeutica back support is THE BEST thing I have found by far. I went from aching in my lower back after maybe 10 min to being able to go ALL DAY. The support is covered with foam and material and gets very wet but I ripped all of the foam and material off and now use just the underlying plastic and it still works great. It also fits right over the hobie seat perfectly.

http://www.amazon.com/Innovative-SDA301 ... ck+support



How did you get it to fit over the seat - by laying it over the top or fastening/securing it to the seat? If you have pics that would be excellent.

The Hobie seat is not very firmly anchored into the deck....I would think there would be additional modificatioon needed, but this looks like a very good option to consider. Thanks for the info.


You dont have to mod anything. There is a strap on the back of the support that just goes right over the hobie seat and can be tightened. I did add a couple of 1" triglides on the hobie seat adjustment straps because of their CONSTANT sliding out of adjustment and this solved that problem.

As far as pictures go I HAVE NO IDEA how to post pictures on this forum. It will not let me. This is the only forum where I have not been allowed to post pics and I have cant understand how others are posting them on here.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 1:37 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:21 pm
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Location: Maui, Hawaii
You need to load the pictures elsewhere like on http://www.photobucket.com/ and then link to it here using Img button above (when posting). See: http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=12574

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 1:52 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:29 pm
Posts: 2094
Location: High Point, NC
If the rudder "pops" and you're trying to paddle or pedal with it, you will indeed incur a hard turn after each stroke (paddle or pedal). These boats are made with little keel in the stern area and thus are intended to be used with the rudder. If it "goes" so dues your ability to track straight. So yes, what you experienced is normal.

If you look at Hobie's line of strictly paddle kayaks, you'll note they have deeper stern keel sections.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:15 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:14 pm
Posts: 1912
Location: South Florida
jeffreydc wrote:
As far as pictures go I HAVE NO IDEA how to post pictures on this forum. It will not let me. This is the only forum where I have not been allowed to post pics and I have cant understand how others are posting them on here.

jeffreydc--in addition to KB's suggestions about posting pictures, I've given detailed, step-by-step instructions at http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=7276&p=237495#p237495 Scroll down to "Including Pictures (Images) in Your Hobie Forum Post."

Keith

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I sail: Biscayne Bay, Everglades to Cape Romano, Ft Desoto, Cedar Key

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 2:30 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:08 pm
Posts: 3
Wet behind, sitting in a puddle in the Adventure Islander?

Was browsing at a West Marine store & saw a Attwood Marine Corp. 'centric saltwater folding seat' & took one home to try on my Adventure Island. Molded plastic seat with snap off saltwater upholstery, white or camo color.

So... here goes: Took the AI seat out and the folding Attwood seat, with a rounded molded plastic bottom, and it fit like a glove into the AI seat recess, just drop it in, no mods necessary. Went out for a sail. VERY comfy with padded backrest, experience was dry and water drained out below easily in light wind then on bigger waves later. Of course some water sprayed on the seat but it did not pool there. It was also easier to peddle the Mirage drive because u sit up straighter another 3 or 4 inches or so & peddle more downward.

You can easily strap or bungee the seat 'waist' to the aka bar behind it if desired, or just drop the seat in.
The seat is narrow enough so it does not interfere with the steering lever and it barely overlaps the hatch in front of it but you can tilt the seat up slightly while sitting on it and no problem there either. I don't see any problems with the seat at all other than the price, but it's a quality, most comfortable, seat that seems just made for the AI @ about $200.

Problem solved.

Perhaps Hobie could work out a deal with Attwood to provide the seat or mold one like it for the AI?

Here's the seat:

http://www.attwoodmarine.com/store/prod ... upholstery


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 7:40 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 04, 2014 11:08 am
Posts: 69
Location: Rochester NY
I went out with someone today on my TI and both of us were sitting in puddles after an hour or so. What has everyone else been doing about those puddles, buying new seats?


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