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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 2:08 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:14 pm
Posts: 1912
Location: South Florida
Now that's good, KB, very good.

Keith

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:43 pm 
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Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
walt:
Talkin about those fingers of lightning, I was on a golf course once (not on my TI though, I was golfing) and a thunderstorm came on us, there were six of us huddling under a big old oak tree when lightning struck the tree. We all felt those fingers of lightning and were all stunned pretty good, nobody was directly hit by a lightning bolt. Just before the lightning hit I saw blue sparkles coming off my fingers and yelled for everyone to hit the dirt, which we all did. It took everyone a little while to get back up, like we were in a time warp. That was definitely a holy crap moment, my whole body ached for days afterwards. I'm assuming we were all just lucky to not have been hurt badly.
So even if you don't get struck directly I would assume if out on a boat like an AI or a TI even if the lightning were to strike the mast, your likely in a world of hurt regardless, especially if your sitting in a blue boat like in the above picture ( LOL).
That's another reason I have the dual motors on my TI, if I'm 5-10 miles from launch and a lightning storm comes on me (they always come very quickly, and here in Florida occur most every afternoon in the summer), my plan is always to open up my motors WOT and get the heck out of dodge it's just not worth the risk to me.
Bob


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:09 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2006 1:16 pm
Posts: 155
Location: Colorado
that would be a bad day to find your kayak looking like that...

FYI, the blue light off the fingers, the buzzing, getting shocked on sailboat shrouds, repeated "clicks" between metal during a thunderstorm can all be explained by Corona currents - that result from the high electric field. The speed of lighting is a lot smaller than the speed of light and the electric fields produced by the lighting would travel at the speed of light. So even before the lightning hits the ground, it is influencing charge at the surface and actually causing current to flow. The water surface gets charged this way even before the lightning gets to the water surface. Its similar to the way current flows in a capacitor.

This paper http://www.lightningsafety.com/nlsi_lhm/Radials.pdf has a picture of the radial "finger" pattern at a golf course. I think it all depends on how conductive the surface (ground or water) where the strike hits. The less conductive, the more likely that lighting will travel on the surface (probably still using ionized air) to spread out to a larger area. If you’re in the path of one of those fingers.. not good. But it’s possible that the finger could go right by you???

I was trying to find the picture of the H16 that was referenced earlier - didn’t find it but on that site were some stories about lightning strikes. Its all internet stuff (could be accurate, also could be BS) but it sounded like the only time someone may have been zapped bad (i.e., fried) was when they were trying to take a metal mast down and the mast got struck.

Its hard to say what would happen on an AI or TI on the water.. but I think at least if the mast were hit, a lot of the charge would go straight from the mast to the nearest water surface, some charge would go out the ama metal bars (cant remember the name for these) and then to the water surface. If some charge were to jump to your body... it might exit to the water surface using whatever was closest to the water surface. This might be your butt.. or might be your testicles :shock: I think if you have sharp downward facing points on your testicles, you may be at higher risk..

As my teenage kid would say to just about everything I tell him .. Uh.. sure...


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 6:40 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:00 pm
Posts: 48
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
KayakingBob wrote:
I just saw this online under "Kayak Struck by Lightning"
http://i.imgur.com/XQWXV8r.jpg
Image



What happened to the paddler???????


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 9:45 am 
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Location: Colorado
FYI, in case anyone was checking their nuts for sharp points, I was of course joking in the last part of my previous post..
:mrgreen: :shock: :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:35 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 10:43 am
Posts: 440
Location: Long Island NY
Hmm .. new Hobie captain's seat with built-in Faraday cage, anyone ?

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 10:25 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2014 8:12 pm
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Although fishermen are struck in higher than average numbers it is assumed that they were out on the water and usually this is not the case. They were standing near the water, often under a tree or building when they were hit. Check the federal database on lightning deaths and you will find the risk is from being out in the open during a thunderstorm where lightning is occurring. The answer is simple - don't go outside during a thunderstorm. These are the activities that led in part to deaths thus far in 2014 from lightning:

Standing in backyard by tree
closing car windows
fishing at edge of lake
riding motorcycle on the highway
doing roofing at car dealership
picking blueberries
in park under a tree
on roadway fixing windshield wiper
under a tree while walking home
hiking on exposed trail
horseback riding on family property
sightseeing at parking area of overlook (2 people)

On the other hand there have been numerous deaths where someone with an aluminum mast struck a power line by accident and was electrocuted. I used to put my racing dinghy in a local lake that had a power line at the boat launch area that was 14 feet above the parking lot and I was carrying around a 12 foot mast to step it with its sail onto the boat. Inattention would have been fatal.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:53 am 
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Joined: Mon May 02, 2011 8:48 am
Posts: 135
Location: Southwest Calif.
Wintersun wrote:
Although fishermen are struck in higher than average numbers it is assumed that they were out on the water and usually this is not the case. They were standing near the water, often under a tree or building when they were hit. Check the federal database on lightning deaths and you will find the risk is from being out in the open during a thunderstorm where lightning is occurring. The answer is simple - don't go outside during a thunderstorm. These are the activities that led in part to deaths thus far in 2014 from lightning:

Standing in backyard by tree
closing car windows
fishing at edge of lake
riding motorcycle on the highway
doing roofing at car dealership
picking blueberries
in park under a tree
on roadway fixing windshield wiper
under a tree while walking home
hiking on exposed trail
horseback riding on family property
sightseeing at parking area of overlook (2 people)

On the other hand there have been numerous deaths where someone with an aluminum mast struck a power line by accident and was electrocuted. I used to put my racing dinghy in a local lake that had a power line at the boat launch area that was 14 feet above the parking lot and I was carrying around a 12 foot mast to step it with its sail onto the boat. Inattention would have been fatal.


One more to add to this list. We had a lightning storm come through So.Calif. yesterday and killed a person who was swimming off of Venice Beach and several more were injured.
Another person who was golfing on Catalina Island was also hit but survived.

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Man-Reportedly-Struck-by-Lightning-Flooding-in-Avalon-as-Rain-Touches-Down-in-Southland-268803311.html

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 12:18 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
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Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
I'm not sure the problem is so much lightning, it's the name 'Venice Beach' that appears to be dangerous. A small plane crashed on Venica beach FL yesterday killing some unsuspecting dad at the beach with his family.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nati ... /13246515/

Honestly this is a heavy boating area in South Florida and just about every weekend someone gets killed in boating accidents, most never even hit the news anymore. I would be much more concerned about getting killed by drunk go fast boats, than being hit by lightning. At least it's my observation that anytime any type of lightning storm is in the area at all, pretty much everyone is wise enough to get out of the water and get to safe harbor (including boats). Since we have thunder storms pretty much every afternoon during the summer, everybody pretty much knows the drill (this is actually a good thing IMO). Where I get downright scared is if I'm offshore or more than a few miles from launch on my TI, and a storm comes up suddenly (they always seem to come up really fast), I want to be able to get out of dodge and get to safety as quickly as possible, if there is little to no wind (which is often the case just before it pours, lull before the storm), and I only have the pedal drives to rely on, or the wind is in the wrong direction and/or really kicks up hard (always seems to end up that way) then I know I'm in a world of trouble.
Myself and quite a few others have been caught too many times going out to Egmont key with a gentle wind and beautiful day (it's about 9 miles from the boat docks to Egmont Key FYI). Then all of a sudden something comes up and your fighting 25 mph offshore winds with 4 ft breakers rolling over you trying to get back to shore Ft Desoto (and safety).
This has also happened to me quite a few times also at our other place down in Key West (next stop Cuba LOL).
My solution since the first time I got into trouble (the day I bought my first TI) has always to have a reliable gas outboard mounted on the boat, to get me home if anything were to happen, actually in 4 1/2yrs of sailing my TI every weekend, I have never gone out without an outboard mounted to the boat. This doesn't mean you have to use it of course, it's there basically for safety purposes.
Of course I'm out there every weekend, and since we are mostly divers/snorkelers we tend to go out a little further, and stay out a little longer than most would. Obviously my TI is all hardened for offshore with big anchors, re-enforcement everywhere, massive sails, FM radios, navigation systems, etc, but that's what we use our boat for mostly. These are our home waters, and we know all the currents and where you can go safely which is huge in my eyes (Key West is not for the feint of heart kayaking wise, (kind of dangerous actually), without local knowledge you could get yourself in big trouble fast with a stock TI, or any kayak ( I'm just sayin).

Bottom line for us is we really enjoy visiting the third biggest coral reef in the world as often as we can get out there, actually we were down there (KW) the last couple weeks (workin on the stupid house mostly) but were able to get out on the boat a few times. My wife and daughter shot this video while down there, pretty cool.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9NMZmFMTU4
[youtube2]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9NMZmFMTU4[/youtube2]

Just being able to do stuff like this makes it all worth the small risk for me, but always be especially aware of the weather....

My advise to anyone is to get out of there if there is even a chance of lightning storms, and your boat should have the means to do it in my opinion if you travel any distance from safety. And never buy a blue boat (look at what happened to that blue boat earlier, and look up once in a while for falling airplanes, and especially drunk go fast powerboaters ( LOL))
Bob


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