Return to Hobie.com
Hobie Forums
It is currently Thu Apr 25, 2024 7:35 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 70 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 7:44 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:25 pm
Posts: 2866
Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
Like Chris I thought that this had already been done and the result was a complete stop.
I found this from "Riddo" on P4 of this thread: viewtopic.php?f=71&t=31296&p=125596

"Last weekend I went out sailing with my Nephew and his mate on the TI. It was blowing at around 10kts so we were having some good runs. Anyway, my Nephew wanted to jump over board while we were sailing so I thought I should take advantage of this and use him as a guinea pig :twisted:

So, I attached him to the rear aka via a surfboard leash to his PFD. The leash was just the right length so that from where I was in the rear seat of the TI I could easily unleash him if things went bad...

Once we were at cruising speed he dropped off the tramp. and ... our momentum came to a grinding halt. When he was in the water, we were moving forward, but only very slowly. He was comfortable getting slowly dragged and there was no real danger. Admittedly, he did struggle to get back in the boat but then again, he's only a little fella so not much strength in the arms.

My newphew is only 12 years old (maybe 40kgs) and his mass pretty much stopped the kayak. I think if I went overboard, it would stop and I could easily pull myself up the leash and back into the kayak. I will get out for a sail in the ocean with my Brother soon and test the theory."



...and this from Nohuhu P3 here: viewtopic.php?f=71&t=27286&p=113001

"Well the test results are in,...

I just happened to find myself with a hitchhiker on my tramps this weekend (another story) who weighed about the same as me, so I leashed him up and tossed him overboard :twisted:

We were on a strong starboard tack into 15-20mph winds (in sheltered water). I tied his left wrist to a 9' quick-release stretch leash and the other end to the right rear Aka, (about a foot from the hull). He "bailed" off the windward side and hit the warm Hawaiian water with minimal splash and hysterics. I remained neutral in the seat and did not assist.

The Good News:
The boat quickly came from about 6 knots to a slow crawl, and turned gradually into the wind. After turning, with a couple kicks he was aboard. Nothing dramatic. It all took less than 30 seconds.

The Bad News:
None really, but I did observe that if you are wearing a VHF radio/sunglasses/hat, you may become preoccupied with saving them and not yourself. Consider the risks here. It will make things harder if your hands are full of any sort of gear (including your precious rod/reel, electronics, etc) that may have washed over without a tether.

Conclusions
1. I am confident that in fair seas, the AI will not go far with you attached to just about any point. (I suspect you will have a harder time contending with whatever caused you to take a dunk in the first place- like high waves, collision with a reef/obstruction or an angry bullshark who doesn't like red Hobies).

2. Use a wrist strap or harness. You would not want to be dragged by your feet for any distance. It will impede your swimming and recovery.

3. Unless you are fighting a record fish, let go of everything else but your lifeline!

4. The boat should slow within a few seconds, but can still pull you along slowly until it turns into the wind. Making yourself "larger" will increase drag and should help to stall and turn it. THIS is your chance to get back onboard before it shoots off in a new direction.

5. A long leash is not necessary. Shorter may be better

The ocean is unpredictable, but after this quick test, I feel confident that a leash will work and is far more likely to save me, than kill me.

I look forward to Maui Bob conducting tests with his TI. With its faster hull and BIG sail, that would be a whole other rodeo ride! (Good luck finding a crash test dummy for that one, Bob)."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 8:23 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:58 am
Posts: 2893
Location: Forster, NSW, Australia
Thanks for the thorough search for references Stringy! I think we can safely assume that tethering is the way to go, and also that AIs or TIs just don't have enough sailpower to drag a tethered crewmember behind.

So there is no reason to overcomplicate things with fancy de-powering devices etc

_________________
Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 10:01 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 2:31 pm
Posts: 3068
Location: Kailua 96734
Good times,.. :twisted:

_________________
The Wind Is Your Friend...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 4:00 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Mon May 18, 2015 2:49 am
Posts: 63
Location: Galway, Ireland (formerly CH)
Nice intel from the digging thanks for that!

And thanks guys for using Guinea pigs to test this! ;-)

_________________
_________________________________________________________
2015 Adventure Island
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-PHLN ... EKefepPXQ/
Blog: http://www.irishrockpoolaquarium.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:32 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2006 1:16 pm
Posts: 605
Location: Colorado
I had read part of this thread a while back and recently my wife and I were sailing the TI in 90F degree water and over 105F air. I was in the back seat and was partly curious about the safety issue of going overboard, partly hot and needed to cool off. With my wife in control of the boat from the front seat, I jumped in from the rear (wearing a life jacket). Mostly this was just very refreshing but I learned a couple things. One is that if you go in with the boat sailing and you grab the aka out near the ama, you are probably going to break the sheer pin. I was holding on to the aka near the hull so didn’t break things but the drag of your body is a big force pulling back on things. Second.. I could not get back up on the boat until my wife steered the boat back up wind and we had almost completely stopped moving. I think being able to steer by just grabbing onto the rudder is good advice..


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:52 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sat May 09, 2015 8:53 am
Posts: 717
Location: Paoli Pennsylvania - East Coast USA
Quote:
After thinking about it more , holy crap.... I'm goin to start clipping my FM radio to my pfd from now on (i usually just stuff it in the pouch of my soft cooler lashed to the tramp).
Makes you think

This is from somebody who does not even own an AI (yet...), so cut me some slack if it sounds too dumb.

How about introducing some weather helm into the rig - enough to weathercock with no tiller input, but not enough to make it too hard to steer?

_________________
2015 AI in "Dune" - "The Grey Pig"
2017 Trailex 450 Trailer
Pre-September 2015 cradles
(anybody want to buy a slightly-used AI SpinKit?)
eMail: [email protected]


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2015 10:36 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:21 pm
Posts: 2498
Location: Central Florida
PeteCress wrote:
Quote:
This is from somebody who does not even own an AI (yet...), so cut me some slack if it sounds too dumb.

How about introducing some weather helm into the rig - enough to weathercock with no tiller input, but not enough to make it too hard to steer?
Our Island boats (AI's and TI's) do have some weather helm and most often will turn into the wind and stop by themselves. But, there is a chance of everything balancing perfectly once your are gone, to sail off on their own. Most sailing and kayaking deaths from ending up in the water seem to include, choosing not to, or unable to, stay with the boat.

_________________
Image
Hobie Island Sailing since 2006


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2015 11:32 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2014 12:49 pm
Posts: 267
Location: Bethany, OK
Well, I almost had a willing victim to test my tether on my TI... Had one of my nephews (11 yo) and a friend of his out on the TI. He has a penchant for jumping in the water! When he first tried kayaking I told him he couldn't swim in the local lakes (regulations) but he *could* practice reentry... :lol:

So he asked about jumping off the TI. We were moving along at a pretty good clip, so I told him if he did then he'd be left far behind and we'd have to come back for him. But I did have this tether I hadn't yet tried out...

He volunteered!

Put the tether on, got out on the haka, and... Hm... I asked if he wanted me to stop first, and he said yes, he'd prefer that! (So did I, frankly...) So we furled the sail, then started drifting downwind at around 2-2.5 MPH. He jumped off then, and it's still quite surprising to see how fast 2-2.5 MPH is when someone is drifting away from you!

It was surprisingly difficult to get him back on, I wasn't really expecting that. Of course it would have been easier for him to get back in the rear seat, but that's where I was. He did manage to climb up over the rear aka, but the easiest was (as Bob has mentioned) climb up on the ama, then onto the haka/tramp. (He "fell off" several times, darn the luck... :mrgreen: )

Of course after that his friend had to try too, so he "fell off" the other side!

So I still haven't experienced how the TI reacts when at speed and someone bails, that'll have to be the next test...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2015 3:04 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sat May 09, 2015 8:53 am
Posts: 717
Location: Paoli Pennsylvania - East Coast USA
KayakingBob wrote:
Our Island boats (AI's and TI's) do have some weather helm and most often will turn into the wind and stop by themselves. But, there is a chance of everything balancing perfectly once your are gone, to sail off on their own. Most sailing and kayaking deaths from ending up in the water seem to include, choosing not to, or unable to, stay with the boat.
If/when I get one of these things I think I will have to try something like a small sea anchor or drogue attached to the line in a throw bag anchored to the bow.

... and then figure out a way so that the sea anchor or drogue gets pulled into the water if/when somebody falls out...and see if it has the desired effect.

Shouldn't be all that big or add much weight - and it's nice to have a throw bag anyhow.... and, not only that, it might even work...at least sometimes.... -)

_________________
2015 AI in "Dune" - "The Grey Pig"
2017 Trailex 450 Trailer
Pre-September 2015 cradles
(anybody want to buy a slightly-used AI SpinKit?)
eMail: [email protected]


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 9:49 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sat May 09, 2015 8:53 am
Posts: 717
Location: Paoli Pennsylvania - East Coast USA
MariusMarinus wrote:
Since it seems the general opinion is the boat will go bye-bye and not capsize I will definitely keep using the leash! ;-)
I would observe that the makers of the Weta trimaran take the trouble to include an anchor point for a leash and recommend that the operator wear a harness that has a leash attachment point.

_________________
2015 AI in "Dune" - "The Grey Pig"
2017 Trailex 450 Trailer
Pre-September 2015 cradles
(anybody want to buy a slightly-used AI SpinKit?)
eMail: [email protected]


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 3:10 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:21 pm
Posts: 2498
Location: Central Florida
Throw rope bags are great. I carry one all the time on my islands.

I take it you also come from a whitewater canoe/kayak background. :)

A small drogue/sea anchor, like what Hobie sells stops our Hobie islands to just about 0, or the currents speed. I have used it at times when fishing.

I still find the easiest is a 9' surfboard leash, stored attached to the side of each island seat where it can be put on (I wear on my ankle) one-handed if out alone or if conditions deteriorate while out.

We'll see what you come up with.

_________________
Image
Hobie Island Sailing since 2006


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2015 7:29 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Mon May 18, 2015 2:49 am
Posts: 63
Location: Galway, Ireland (formerly CH)
I use a drogue all the time when fishing as the winddrift is usually too fast with the AI for bottom fishing. My drogue is 0.6m diameter and 0.8m long, intended for 16ft boats. But in anything more than 10kt winds it will still drift over 2.5kph (obviously depending on currents and tides) but IMO it is not safe to use if going overboard as you will probably fall off in higher winds and even with boat on drogue you will be hopelessly unable to catch up with it.
What I might try the next time i am out is trowing the drogue overboard while doing 13kph+ and see what happens.

I would say our body attached to the rear brace with a waist belt and tether would act like a massive drogue and bring the boat to a near halt. Being attached to the tether with your foot is IMO pure suicide.

I will see what happens but if potentially our body resistance in the water is not enough to slow down the boat enough so we can pull ourselves back, a device to uncleat the sail while in the water would be nice to have. Maybe just attaching the end of the mainsail line to the tether so you can maybe reach it and uncleat the sail while in the water?

_________________
_________________________________________________________
2015 Adventure Island
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-PHLN ... EKefepPXQ/
Blog: http://www.irishrockpoolaquarium.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2015 7:43 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sat May 09, 2015 8:53 am
Posts: 717
Location: Paoli Pennsylvania - East Coast USA
MariusMarinus wrote:
I would say our body attached to the rear brace with a waist belt and tether would act like a massive drogue and bring the boat to a near halt. Being attached to the tether with your foot is IMO pure suicide.
"Suicide" might be too strong a word, but "Courting Injury", IMHO, applies.

On my surf ski, I attach the leash to my shin just below the knee.

Went over the falls in a break off of the Brigantine Inlet some years back and felt like a bass lure spinning behind the ski as the whitewater carried it into the channel.

No injury that time, but I can see how it could have been otherwise.

_________________
2015 AI in "Dune" - "The Grey Pig"
2017 Trailex 450 Trailer
Pre-September 2015 cradles
(anybody want to buy a slightly-used AI SpinKit?)
eMail: [email protected]


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2015 8:44 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Mon May 18, 2015 2:49 am
Posts: 63
Location: Galway, Ireland (formerly CH)
Sorry yeah suicide might have been too strong of a word, but certainly not fun :lol:
I like your metaphor with the bass lure, sounds funny but sure wasnt funny at all :shock:

_________________
_________________________________________________________
2015 Adventure Island
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-PHLN ... EKefepPXQ/
Blog: http://www.irishrockpoolaquarium.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 1:44 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sat May 09, 2015 8:53 am
Posts: 717
Location: Paoli Pennsylvania - East Coast USA
BirdofPrey wrote:
1) Always wear a good quality PFD - wear it, not carry it and it should have a whistle (and a light if out after dark)
Call me obsessive, but I consider a working strobe to be part of any PFD that I think enough of to wear.... day or night.

Who is to say that day won't turn to night while I am bobbing around out there?

Sunset sails and all that...

_________________
2015 AI in "Dune" - "The Grey Pig"
2017 Trailex 450 Trailer
Pre-September 2015 cradles
(anybody want to buy a slightly-used AI SpinKit?)
eMail: [email protected]


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 70 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
© Hobie Cat Company. All rights reserved.
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group